Hair Problems

buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
Been noticing a couple of my dogs starting to lose their hair. It has been a slow process and I have tried all types of relief solutions. Its only affecting dogs in one yard (I have dogs at multiple sites). I had the problem with my young pups having been born with mange (b/c the mother set something off during delivery) and that has since been cured (about 2 months ago) but since then my other dogs have started losing their hair. My first thought was fleas and I have inspected all the dogs to a T. They are thinning in their outside of their ears and on the inside of their back legs. Their skin color isn't changing and they don't appear to have bites or scars. Has anyone ever had this problem? I have tried two different types of kennel dip but doesn't seem to be helping. Any ideas?
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I am guessing you have an infestation now of Sarcoptic mange and will need to treat the whole kennel and surrounding areas. Remember it is just a mite and them things move.
 
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buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
That was the same diagnosis I had arrived with. Any suggestions how to get rid of it? I could use ivomec I reckon. Been told that will cure it. Its amazing, been raising and owning dogs for 32 years now and never encountered it before. This summer has drove me nuts though with dogs. Be glad when weather snaps and gets cold.
 
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nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Google Sarcoptic mange, there are a bunch of remedies that you can use that will work that is economical and is much less harsh than Ivomec. Just be careful, most any of the topical treatments make them real sensitive to sunlight during the treatment. You will have to have them in the shade.
 

mountaincurs

Guest
Ivermec is the best way to help control it. I had a cur puppy get demodectic mange he was covered. the rest of his litter got it aswell (bred by a friend). Its suppose to be more of an immune system weakness and that's why the mange mites infested that dog supposidly its not contagious. The dog lived with 6 other hound puppies from 3 different litters none of which related or had a history of immune issues. About 2 months after the puppy first showed signs of mange 4 of the foxhound pups got it. Even the vets couldn't believe that type of mange spread like that. just my luck lol. all dogs lived on a concrete kennels disinfected one a week no reason other then the cur puppy was genetically disposed to it. Now the foxhounds are happy and healthy but I feel your pain no worse feeling then having to deal with mange.
 

buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
Yeah, currently have sprayed the pens 3 straight days with Clorox. Bought 5 gallons and don't intend to stop spraying til all 5 are gone. Bout to try changing up my worming regimen as well. My uncle has been using for a long, long time now with no problems. I know worming techniques bring up arguments up here but let me know what yals thoughts are on this mixture. Again he is an old gent that has been doing it for quite a while now. He mixes a 16 oz bottle of Pryantel with a 50 mL of Ivomec. Then he gives each dog 1 mL of each orally a month. Has never lost a dog to overdose, doesn't have problems with worms. What are your thoughts? He told me he doesn't start giving this to dogs under a year. Once they hit 1 year old is when he starts. Also, going to start giving my 5 month old pups and 4 month old pups on Ivomec. I have read all the research, read all of your posts up here, when is it safe to give to a young dog and how much do you start them at? I have heard putting three drops on a piece of bread and giving it to pups. Don't want to kill them after all the hard work and time it has taken me to get these pups.
 
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nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I don't have the words, that I can use on here to describe what I think about someone that would use something like that on dogs. He may be old but that doesn't absolve him from being a damn fool. He may not have overdosed a dog but he sure is ruining their kidneys and liver. And no, I am sure he doesn't have worm issues.
 
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rhromm

Guest
Buckshot,

I need to get in touch with you one day. I am working on a paper for my MPH, "barriers to physical fitness in rural communities." I was going to compare Tyrrell county to that of a county in the triad area.
 

buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
Well nccatfisher, I guess I struck a bad nerve with you on that one. Didn't mean to. Guess you have set me straight on that one. I have to let him know that he is a damn fool and try some other means then to cure up the problem. By the way I'm not trying to start anything, just harsh words like that must mean what he is doing is pretty dumb. There are a bunch of fox hunters that have been using that method for awhile around here. I will let them know that they may want to change their worming regimen. Also since it seems you know a lot, what would be your approach for curing the hair problem? By the way you wrote google the word. I hope you don't think that I'm so blind to the obvious solutions. I have tried several different types of dips as I stated in previous posts. I have been doing what the vets recommend-what are your words of wisdom?
 
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nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The reason I said to google remedies is there are a million of them and just about all work. I was just saying pick out would you thought would be easiest for your application.

All I would ask has many of those fox hunters that are using those treatments with the pyrantel and ivomec ever have many dogs die of old age? I mean live to 12-14 years old? I would suspect that if they had one live to 8 years old it would be the exception not the rule at that kind of dosage. But I may be wrong. On the other hand they may not care if they live to be old, they may just be interested in right now. The kind of dogs I hunt can and still do perform at older ages. And even if they didn't I still try to keep them as healthy as possible and repay them for what they did for me when they were in their performing days. Ok, I'll STFU now.
 
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buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
nccatfisher, I have never used ivomec (I currently have 6 dogs over 9 and have had 3 live to be 14). That is the reason I was asking the questions. I had heard ivomec worked. I have tried 3 different types of dips claiming they cure these things. I read that ivomec, when used correctly cured mites. Most of my dogs that my uncle has live to be in the 8-10 year average, with one living to be 16. I have never used ivomec for the reasons you mention-life span. I have even talked to folks before about using ivomec and telling them that it does affect the age of the dog. What would you use? I have used Happy Jack (only one i remember the name for) kennel dip, and some other dips. Been cloroxing pens, off road diesel, I have tried a whole bunch of things this summer to cure. Nothing seems to stick. The vet says its sarcoptic mange. I am at ends here. Again not trying to fuss with anyone or how they do things, just want to know do I cure? Especially when you have done what the vet tells you to do and it doesn't work!!!
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I have never had mange here in 45 years so I can't say first hand. I personally have seen people use the motor oil trick and I have seen them use the Ivomec so there is my real life experience with mange. I know a guy that was given 6 beagles that had absolutely no hair on them they were so bad. Their skin was cracked open and had open sores. He used burnt oil on them. In a month they had hair coming back and were otherwise healthy after worming. He kept them out of the sun because of course the oil would have burnt their skin badly. I also have known people that have used the ivomec but am not familiar with the dosage.

Here is the way the oldtimes do the motor oil.


The easiest and most inexpensive treatment to kill the mites on dogs that are kept outdoors, and heal minor bacterial infections is a two part treatment. First, bathe the mange infected dog with an inexpensive dog shampoo or dishwashing liquid detergent while using a firm, bristle brush to scrub off any scabs or scaly skin. Second, dip a rag in used automobile motor oil and generously apply the oil to the infected area along with the surrounding hair. DO NOT get the oil in the dogs ears or eyes. This treatment will kill the mites that are causing the hair loss/bacterial skin infections, is safe to use on your dog, and the used motor oil acts as a moisturizer to help stop itching. This treatment will work in 98% of all mange infected animals, especially those without any major bacterial skin infections
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Sulfur in the burnt motor used to help. Now motor oils are low in sulfur. You can use oil mixed with sulfur. Sulfur is good for the skin. That's why people flocked to the sulfur/hot springs at on time.

Before somebody screams foul, a lot of the kennel dips have petroleum products in them. Happy Jack Kennel Dip II, is suppose to work on mange mites also. It contains permethrin and a small amount(very small) of some other chemical. You can treat the area around your kennels, houses and the dogs with permethrin just mix 1 oz to 20 ozs for the 10% solution (most common). The HJ Kennel Dip II is 17% permethrin solution and recommends 1 oz to 32 ozs for use on dogs. Both work out to be .50% and .57% solutions, respectively. Permethrin in metabolized in the liver of mammals and toxins excreted, making permethrin very safe. This is one reason why permethrin is not recommended for use on skin, it is absorbed and metabolized. It is used regularly on dogs and other livestock, I suppose it bonds with the hair.
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
DRS said:
Sulfur in the burnt motor used to help. Now motor oils are low in sulfur. You can use oil mixed with sulfur. Sulfur is good for the skin. That's why people flocked to the sulfur/hot springs at on time.

Before somebody screams foul, a lot of the kennel dips have petroleum products in them. Happy Jack Kennel Dip II, is suppose to work on mange mites also. It contains permethrin and a small amount(very small) of some other chemical. You can treat the area around your kennels, houses and the dogs with permethrin just mix 1 oz to 20 ozs for the 10% solution (most common). The HJ Kennel Dip II is 17% permethrin solution and recommends 1 oz to 32 ozs for use on dogs. Both work out to be .50% and .57% solutions, respectively. Permethrin in metabolized in the liver of mammals and toxins excreted, making permethrin very safe. This is one reason why permethrin is not recommended for use on skin, it is absorbed and metabolized. It is used regularly on dogs and other livestock, I suppose it bonds with the hair.
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You can buy water soluble sulfur and add it to the oil and also if you use old diesel oil it will have much higher sulfur content. That is why they use it on cattle and hog rubs, it also gets rid of mites on them and in turn is a pretty good tick and fly repellant also. I think the oil is just primarily a carrier. Soon they will stop that because it isn't green friendly.
 

ENC Bone Collector

Eight Pointer
Buckshot, I too had problems this year for the first time with mange that I could not get cleared. I tried multiple dips and even the burnt motor/sulfur. Was told by others to use ivomec. Not being sure on the dosage and hearing how bad its suppose to be on them. I first only gave 1/2cc and 2 days later another. In just those days I could see what seemed to be improvement, but stopping with the ivomec (in fear of hurting the dog) it quickly went back the other way. So I asked my vet whom I trust very much. He said start with .25cc the first day, .5 the next, .75, up to 1cc. He said give it daily until its completely cleared and then some. He said with severe cases it could take several weeks, but to keep giving it. I had 2 dogs infected. One only had a small patch on the back of her kneck, and it was cleared in 2 weeks. The other was pretty bad and it took about a month to completely regrow all of her hair. I can promise, you'll start seeing results within the first couple of days. Whether or not it's damaged the dog, I can't say. My vet has had a repeatable business for many years, and I trust him. The mange is definitely gone.
 

JFerrell

Guest
The burnt motor oil and sulfur has been a treatment for many years. Happy Jack Kennel Dip with some permethrin (small bottle) mixed in will do the trick. The permethrin is oily and will kind of stay on top of the water. Stir it before you dip the dog. You can feel the oily feel where the hair is missing. This will knock it out too.
 

buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
I have been told to use .5 cc of ivomec every two weeks, for 6 weeks. Going to try and see if that works. I will let you all know.
 

Southside

Ten Pointer
buckshot32182 said:
I have been told to use .5 cc of ivomec every two weeks, for 6 weeks. Going to try and see if that works. I will let you all know.
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Do you know if the dog has heartworms or has been given preventative for them? One draw back to ivermec is killing a dog that has heart worms (even though it is an excellent preventative for heartworms) if this isn't accurate someone feel free to correct me.
 
pattersonj11

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
seen ivomec used for the last 25 years. Never seen it used on puppies, but our grown dogs get it. Hunting dogs and mutts alike. Lost a dog this year that was 16 years old, but she was killed by other dogs.

I just follow the directions on the label for cattle. 1cc/ml per 50/100lbs? Can't remember, that's why I read it.
 
pattersonj11

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
seen ivomec used for the last 25 years. Never seen it used on puppies, but our grown dogs get it. Hunting dogs and mutts alike. Lost a dog this year that was 16 years old, but she was killed by other dogs.

I just follow the directions on the label for cattle. 1cc/ml per 50/100lbs? Can't remember, that's why I read it.

We use Oral doses.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
My understanding is you can give a dog 1/10 of a cc(ml) of Ivomec per 10 lbs and it would be the same as the monthly preventative for heartworms. Some of the literature I have read by vets say you can treat heartworms by giving the monthly preventative. The amount given in the monthly dose kills the larvae in the blood stream but not the adults in the heart. However, it affects the adults heartworms health and ability to reproduce, causing some to be sterile. When the adult heartworms die off the dog would be heartworm free.

Kill the adults quickly and you run the risk of killing the dog
 
nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
DRS said:
My understanding is you can give a dog 1/10 of a cc(ml) of Ivomec per 10 lbs and it would be the same as the monthly preventative for heartworms. Some of the literature I have read by vets say you can treat heartworms by giving the monthly preventative. The amount given in the monthly dose kills the larvae in the blood stream but not the adults in the heart. However, it affects the adults heartworms health and ability to reproduce, causing some to be sterile. When the adult heartworms die off the dog would be heartworm free.

Kill the adults quickly and you run the risk of killing the dog
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 

buckshot32182

Eight Pointer
Wow one week in and can see one of my dogs is showing good signs of recovery. Starting to grow back hair. His cell mate has stopped but not growing hair back yet. He probably is, just one is more white (the one that is showing improvement) and the other almost all black (color is the reason he looks worst, in my opinion). Don't want to jump the gun but seems to be working.
 
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