Ohio supreme court hears case involving hunting of 20-point buck

Hawgnman

Guest
There is an interesting legal twist to this case, Whole article here.

Basically a hunter legally shot a deer, he tracked the deer onto another property and gutted the deer took it to a processor. The property owner where the deer was gutted called the game warden. They took DNA from the gut pile and matched it to the antlers and meat at the processor. He pleaded guilty to trespassing and paid the fine. They the state game commission wanted 28,000 to replace the deer. But they have the deer in their possession. If he had not trespassed the deer is still dead.

I don't condone the trespassing, but I see no basis for the additional $28,000.

What do you think?
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
If he shot it legally, then I also see no basis for the additional $28,000.

He should have asked permission to retrieve it. He SURELY should have dragged it back to where he had permission to hunt to field dress it rather than field dress it on another's land. That was just dumb and inconsiderate.
 

catfishrus

Twelve Pointer
"But Michael Hendershot, legal counsel for ODNR, said investigators found a tree stand, deer entrails and corn on the private property in question."


Dont sound like a legal kill to me..evidence is there to suggest otherwise.
 
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bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
IF SHOT LEGALLY. The way they're talking it sounds like they already knew the answer to whether they could retrieve the deer or not would have been NO. Chances are the people with the private land, after being aware a deer was killed would have been out searching to make sure that the 20 pt wasn't the one killed. Next thing you know they now have your 200 inch 20 pt deer. If shot legally that would be terrible.
 
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Greg

Old Mossy Horns
I hadn't read the article. They'd still need to prove that he was trespassing when he shot it. The stand / corn could belong to somebody else.

Anyway ... a crappy situation for sure.
 
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Johnny

Guest
People get crazy about a deer. We all have had run in's with crazy people. I have been to court twice myself over legally hunting deer. I don't know the people involved so I cannot say what I would have done. But I wouldn't have gutted the deer on the other mans property. There are a lot of people who own two acres and think they have rights for 2,000 acres.
 

darenative

Twelve Pointer
Unless the state has undeniable proof that the deer was shot on the private unhuntable property, I'd have a hard time justifying anything over a simple trespassing charge.
 

Hawgnman

Guest
Seems like splitting hairs here, but if the $28,000 was a fine, pay up. But for replacement costs no deal.
 

shadycove

Twelve Pointer
Poison fruit from a poison tree [trespassing]. This would make the deer illegal and in Ohio they have a fine that is attached to the B&C score of a buck AND they get to keep the horns.
Wake up guys, when you go to the midwest/west, you are in a different world from NC as far as the DNR is concerned.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
The question is if your neighbor had 1/2 acre of land to hunt and he hunted the property line and shot a 20 pt. buck on his land and it ran back to yours, would you give him permission to retrieve?

Sure most would say yes. Now if they pursued trespass charges I doubt they would have given permission to retrieve.

I think game retrieval should be legal under the escort of a GW or other LEO, when an original hunt site can be established.

IMHO greed, no matter what the facts are are caused this entire situation and charges.
 
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PG2

Ten Pointer
In Ohio if you are hunting private property you must carry a signed permission slip, if not you are trespassing. If this guy shot it on property he had permission to and it crossed to property he did not have permission his only recourse was to ask permission and I not granted he should have called the game warden and showed him what happened and proceeded from there. I have dealt with the same situation in Ohio. We had a guy that bought a farm next to the property we hunted. He did not allow us on his land for any reason, but we caught him numerous times on our property.... When he grandkids started hunting he changed his tune real quick after they shot a buck on our property, the kicker was that we were on a drive and a stander watched them shoot the buck from their side into our side....
 

MoBucks

Old Mossy Horns
Just saw this on a comment under the article.....and it made me think.......If the state can charge you a "replacement fine" for a deer taken illegally......they are claiming the deer as their property.....hence their responsibility.......if they can do that ......why shouldn't they pay for their property running out and destroying people's vehicles? I don't like the whole "replacement" bs.......especially when based on antler size.......what are they going to do? Are they going to buy $25,000, 20 point deer and release it back where that one was killed? Doesn't make much sense IMO
 

ditchbank

Banned
I kill a big 20 point buck and it dies on neighbors land that possibly knows about the deer or is also hunting it. I ain't telling him nothing. Unless we are the best friends in the world. Even then I would have to think about it. I'd honestly probably just drag him back to my property, get him
Loaded in the truck and say nothing...loose lips sink ships......think about it he had to have said something. What's the odds of his neighbor walking up to a fresh gut pile? Unless there are no buzzards or coyotes. You leave a gut pile in the woods around here over night and it's gone the next day.


I have small thumbs!!
 

Bollweevil

Eight Pointer
Here's my take.... The $28,000 fine is based on the antler size of the deer, and the law is set up to prevent people from illegally killing large deer via trespassing/spotlighting. If the hunter can prove that the deer was killed on land that he was allowed to hunt, then I think the deer was legally harvested. However, since he did not have permission to retrieve the deer on the neighboring property, then I feel like he should be fined/penalized. In the end, the deer was legally killed, and it belongs to the hunter.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
There MUST be some details that have not been shared somewhere. If the deer was indeed shot legally, and then recovered illegally, then the "replacement" fee is hard for me to understand. If they want to keep the deer because it was recovered illegally, then so be it. But regardless of recovery or not, the deer is dead. Would there be a fee if the hunter had not recovered the deer? Probably not.
 

ditchbank

Banned
I killed a chimney swift one time and got ticket for it...I had to pay a $25.00 replacement cost. I always wondered what they replaced it with.


I have small thumbs!!
 
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Downeast

Twelve Pointer
Replacement costs are determined by the legislature and are an interpretation of the "value" of wildlife. I like the concept myself. When you think of the economic activity generated by deer hunting here in NC then the monetary value of that wildlife resource is very important.
 

shadycove

Twelve Pointer
IMO, if you SHOOT a deer on your property and it lives long enough to die on some one else's property, you did not legally KILL that deer. You legally SHOT that deer but once it crosses the property line, the deer that you SHOT on your property it is no longer YOUR deer. If the landholder allows you to track and recover the deer that you SHOT on your property, thats great. If not, you have no legal recourse.
This may not seem right to some folks [it does not to me] but the law is clear as to what "take" "hunting" and "trespass" mean.
He did what he thought he had to do to get HIS big buck, but it was not to be.
He knew that the landholder would not let him retrieve the buck so he knowingly broke the law to retrieve it. I am sure that the deer was nowhere near the property line or he would not have field dressed it there, soooooooooooo, maybe the GW's are right and it was his stand on the other mans property.
For this hunter, the $28,000.00 is gone and so are the horns.
 

Smitty010203

Twelve Pointer
I think you gotta keep in mind it was a 20 pt. 5-6 year old OHIO buck. That thing probably weighed over 200lbs. I only say this because perhaps that is the reason he gutted it out on the neighboring land. Perhaps he tried to move it, but wasnt able to, so he did what he did to get his buck of a lifetime. I would have done the same thing. Obviously there are many unknowns to this story. Things like how far onto the other property he walked 10 yards or did he trample a mile through it searching for the deer. Maybe he and that neighbor have had multiple run ins before this so he should have known better and deserves trespassing, or perhaps that neighboring land hasn't been touched in 20 years by the owner because they live in another state and they just happened to show up to visit their land and they just happened to be a member of PETA and this dude just caught the biggest dook end of a stick in the history. All I know is, I don't know too many places where if I shoot a 20 pt buck, or even a doe for that matter, and I watch it fall 10 yards in the middle of the woods on a neighboring property or on the other side of the creek, I'ma go get that deer (And I would bet regardless of what most of you on here are saying, you would to). So go ahead and burn me at the stake. Again though, it really all depends on the circumstances.
 
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catfishrus

Twelve Pointer
I have been dealing trespassing issues in Ohio for the past 4-5 years..I dont care if hes 5 ft, 50 ft, 500 ft, or 500 yards on my property..I plan to prosecute. His license are just like mine...they are printed out with the law requiring written permission on them just like mine. It clearly states if on foot..$500 fine first offense if on a motor vechile..double.

Here is my target
 

Larry R

Old Mossy Horns
I think Smitty hit the nail on the head closer than anyone so far. I've still got that dollar bet to your day old donut. If you shot a 20 point buck, saw it fall 20 yards onto adjacent property you are going to go and retrieve that 20 point deer. Period. I don't care what the definition of "take" is. If you shoot that 20 point on your land you NEVER know for 100% that the deer will fall on the spot or travel 50, 100 or 200 yards. So what are you going to do not shoot because the deer might travel onto adjoining property. Yeah right. So you shoot the deer and it makes it a few yards across the property line and you aren't allowed/determined to retrieve that 20 point deer? Yeah Right. Lets get real.

I think it should be a law that if you legally shoot a deer (can prove where the deer stood on your property when you pulled the trigger) you should be allowed to recover that deer or at least do your utmost to recover the anlmal. You try hunting on my property and that is a different story but if you are tracking a deer you shot legally the deer on your property and can prove where you shot the deer, wait just a minute and I'm going to be there trying to help you track and recover your animal.

My take is that someone is pissed because another hunter killed a trophy buck that they wanted very much to kill.
 
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pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Larry opens up another question...is it our duty to retrieve animals that go onto another property? That's a personal decision. Trespassing is illegal but so is jaywalking. I'm sure you are all willing to jaywalk, burn trash, pee outside....
 

Larry R

Old Mossy Horns
I believe that somewhere in the Regulation Digest that I read it is the hunters responsibility to retrieve all game shot. Not sure but I believe it is in relation to dove hunting. So it's OK to do whatever one can to retrieve a dove but OK to let a large animal such as a deer rot just because it is on adjacent property? Again I say it should be law that the individual who legally shot an animal be allowed to make every effort to retrieve a shot deer. If it means a visit to the local GW or Sheriff to accompany you to retrieve then so be it but NOTHING should prohibit a shooter from trying to recover a legally shot animal.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
It's all circumstantial larryr. Some of these guys in the ethics police would run all over people's land and cut down fences to catch the ice cream truck but not retrieve a deer.

It is my ethical obligation and moral obligation to kill an animal and use it for its resources. I'm not going to knowingly kill or wound one without doing my due diligence to use the animal. I don't care if it's a boone and Crockett or a doe. If there is a legal issue, then the consequences must be faced. That $28000 fine is unjust if the animal was truly mortally wounded before crossing property lines.

It's not a black and white issue. It's a personal choice, just like a ballot in November.
 

JoeyK

Twelve Pointer
myself and all adjacent landowners have an agreement....if an animal is shot on my property and travels to theres got get it....just let them or myself know when they get time....there is more to that story than what is being shared.
 

m23cbl

Six Pointer
If the deer was killed legally then just burn his butt on a trespassing charge and be done with it. Just because his recovery was illegal does'nt justify a "poaching" type fine. Id be willing to pay a $200 or $300 dollar fine to recover a 20 point buck on somebody elses land.
 

Larry R

Old Mossy Horns
I might pay the trespassing fine but the size of the animal makes no difference. I shot the deer legally then I'll do whatever I can to recover it. If I had to pay it I would not be happy about it nor would it make my relationship with the neighbor very cordial from that point forward. That neighbor damn well best watch his P's & Q"s. He or one of his sets one foot on my property and his azzz is going to be charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. He makes one mistake and I would not hesitate to have him jailed and fined if at all possible,no questions asked or excuses accepted. If he is that kind of neighbor then he definitely doesn't ever want to try to become a friend of mine.

One time I was rabbit hunting with a bow and arrow. This "landowner" who had bought just enough land to build a house on. His dogs came running down close to where we were hunting on my cousins property and where I had permission to hunt. He wanted to know what I was doing, deer season was closed. I explained to him that I very well knew deer season was closed. Then he wanted to know why I was deer hunting? I informed him I wasn't deer hunting, that I was rabbit hunting. Then is when he practically called me a liar "rabbit hunting with a bow and arrow". He had the audacity of telling me he was interested and concerned when anyone was hunting "near" his property.

That was the last straw. I went off on him like a dog on a coon and I did not mince words. My final words to him was that he best get his azzzz back up on his little piece of dirt because from where he was standing he was trespassing. It just pisses me off that some idiot buys 1/8th acre, builds a house then owns the whole damn county.
 
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