Changes in Conviction

Triggermortis

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Would like to hear of anyone changing from one denomination or church to another based upon a change in conviction about what you believe now as to what you believed in the past. For example, in terms of church polity, I now am convinced the scriptural model would indicate an elder-led church as opposed to a pastor/deacon model like I knew in the church I attended growing up and others afterward.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I grew up Methodist, but when I moved to Henderson, I had folks from the Baptist Church just across the field from my house visit me and invite me to service. I took them up on the offer. To me, I found the worship there more genuine and heart felt. I also liked the idea of the church getting to choose a pastor that best suited the church. The values of the Baptist church were also a bit more conservative and the church is more autonomous in it's doctrine, and not dictated to by a conference, which suited me better as well.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I've been to several different denominations in my short lifetime as a preacher's kid and as an adult. The individual church seems to be much more important to me than the denomination specifically. I've been in Methodist Churches where I've enjoyed hearing the word of God preached, and then some where the Bible was never opened....just as example. Some of the best services I can remember were in a Church of Christ, but there are some of those I'd never step foot in unless it was to help them reform to a place of worship of God.
I currently attend an Independent Baptist Church which has a large school, college and large congregation but the Pastor preaches the Word and holds the members and congregation in his heart. That's much more important than the label that is placed on the building.
I do believe that the Word of God states that a single God appointed man is to be the head of the Church, but the Church can also have additional Elders to assist in the functions necessary. Some Churches call a Pastor(or whatever that denomination may call the head man of the Church)and some are appointed by proxy, but as long as God wants that person there as head of the Church, it will be fruitful and full of blessings.
 

Zach's Grandpa

Old Mossy Horns
My experience has been that a pastor led church with an advisory board or elders works well. The pastor has the authority to make decisions without going before a committee but the board has oversight if needed. A lot of non-denominational churches are also under advisement by a board made up of pastors at non-denominational churches. In the event of a moral failure the church board or elders would go to the larger group for advise as to handle whatever the situation might be.
 

cmcarter

Six Pointer
My change in denomination was from Methodist to Baptist.

But more over than denomination and their tradition, I had been convicted strictly on the Word of God. Primarily in one area but stemming to more areas.

1) Biblical preaching. I attended a couple churches when I was younger that pull from scripture to support their message on Sunday. It took a while but I finally found a local church that the pastor teaches verse by verse from one book (start/finish) and then starting another. (simply called, expository teaching).

Stems - From bible teaching (believing and teaching the whole bible, not just parts)

1) What the church believes. (Theological statement). Primarily in areas of "controversy" today. Who they believe Christ is. What they believe men/women roles are.
What they believe sin is and how it is dealt with by God and should be dealt with by the church. Who the church is for? (assembly of/for believers - not forsaking one another).

2) How a church pastor and deacons should be (Look at 1 Tim 3)

These to name a few are essentials; areas that some bend or totally ignore.
 
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Triggermortis

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
My change in denomination was from Methodist to Baptist.

But more over than denomination and their tradition, I had been convicted strictly on the Word of God. Primarily in one area but stemming to more areas.

1) Biblical preaching. I attended a couple churches when I was younger that pull from scripture to support their message on Sunday. It took a while but I finally found a local church that the pastor teaches verse by verse from one book (start/finish) and then starting another. (simply called, expository teaching).

Stems - From bible teaching (believing and teaching the whole bible, not just parts)

1) What the church believes. (Theological statement). Primarily in areas of "controversy" today. Who they believe Christ is. What they believe men/women roles are.
What they believe sin is and how it is dealt with by God and should be dealt with by the church. Who the church is for? (assembly of/for believers - not forsaking one another).

2) How a church pastor and deacons should be (Look at 1 Tim 3)

These to name a few are essentials; areas that some bend or totally ignore.

Good points. Especially how you mention that your change of mid was based on the conviction of Scripture.
 

Clifford NC

Guest
Like a few others have said, I switched from Methodist to Baptist, based on biblical preaching, theology, emphasis on proclaiming the gospel and gospel centered missions.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I have changed denominations, but not based on convictions - based on the best church available within my local area. While I don't have a consumer mentality, there's no point in getting plugged in to a dead church.

But there is an issue that I have changed convictions on since I was young, based purely on scripture: Alcohol.

I grew up in a denomination, church, and family that was absolutely against the use of alcohol in any way. After a long and careful study over many years, that just isn't supported by scripture, at all. Of the many, many times when alcohol (wine) is mentioned in scripture, I would say it is used as a sign of blessing at least as many times as it is warned against. There are plenty of examples to make the point, but none stronger or more direct than Jesus' first miracle. My change in conviction has nothing to do with my personal preferences, as drinking alcohol was never a part of my life. The church I am a member of today continues to take a stance that I believe is bordering on non-scriptural. They do not prohibit members from the use of alcohol but do prohibit church leaders from it, and require them to sign a statement to the fact. I don't believe that is scriptural. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but when Jesus wouldn't qualify for leadership in the church, then your requirements are off.
 
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Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I agree with you 100% Sky hawk. My denomination also frowns upon alcohol use. I am a Sunday school teacher. Not long ago, we had a lesson on substance abuse. I told my class what the lesson said about alcohol, then I discussed with them what the scriptures said. Alcohol has never been a big part of my life, and I can't recall the last time I did imbibe. But that is my choice.
 

Banjo

Old Mossy Horns
I have changed denominations, but not based on convictions - based on the best church available within my local area. While I don't have a consumer mentality, there's no point in getting plugged in to a dead church.

But there is an issue that I have changed convictions on since I was young, based purely on scripture: Alcohol.

I grew up in a denomination, church, and family that was absolutely against the use of alcohol in any way. After a long and careful study over many years, that just isn't supported by scripture, at all. Of the many, many times when alcohol (wine) is mentioned in scripture, I would say it is used as a sign of blessing at least as many times as it is warned against. There are plenty of examples to make the point, but none stronger or more direct than Jesus' first miracle. My change in conviction has nothing to do with my personal preferences, as drinking alcohol was never a part of my life. The church I am a member of today continues to take a stance that I believe is bordering on non-scriptural. They do not prohibit members from the use of alcohol but do prohibit church leaders from it, and require them to sign a statement to the fact. I don't believe that is scriptural. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but when Jesus wouldn't qualify leadership in the church, then your requirements are off.

A lot of traditional congregations have built fences around the sin and added layers to keep parishioners from sinning. After so many layers are added, the original intents is lost. The scriptures say to remain sober. I feel that if you get drunk, it is a sin, but I do not feel it is a sin to have a drink or two.

There is no scriptural support for and congregation to have any documents signed before you can be a leader in God's church. I feel that that is just another example of man getting in the way of God's desire.
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I've never held to the notion that when the Bible mentions wine that it's speaking of grape juice, but that's what some would have you to believe. In an age before refrigeration the alcohol content of the liquid actually kept the drink from being dangerous to consume.
There were more alcoholic beverages than just wine, but that tends to be used on both sides of the coin. There are many mentions of "excess" being a form of sin, as well as the mistreating of "God's temple" as in drunkenness and other vices. There are many situations in the Bible that are used as an example and the abuse of alcohol is specifically mentioned as a contributing factor to the degradation of morality , ethical behaviors, ect... It's pretty clear that the abuse of alcohol is spoken strongly against in the Bible, but if the actual drinking of alcohol would have been forbidden, then I think the Bible would have made that very clear as well since it was such a common thing in those days and there were strict rules about the food and drink given very clearly in the Old Testament.
If you are of the type that a beer turns into 12 and you lose your moral character, then I do believe you have sinned against God by indulging in even one beer.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I've never held to the notion that when the Bible mentions wine that it's speaking of grape juice, but that's what some would have you to believe.

Oh no, the context is very clear - hence the warnings against drunkenness. The idea that the wine of the day was simply grape juice would directly contradict the context in which it was mentioned. As in Jesus' first miracle, they said the best wine was customarily drank first - before all of the attendees became drunk - then they brought out the cheap stuff because no one cared. Similarly, the requirements for being a deacon include not being prone to drinking much wine/drunkenness. That's because there certainly was alcohol in the wine, and it was commonplace for believers to consume it, in moderation. The many warnings against drunkenness are a direct indication that the wine that Jesus, the apostles, Paul, and early believers drank was very much alcoholic wine.

It is unfortunate that a large segment of the modern Christian culture has denounced alcohol in principle. This is a distraction, much like some of the distractions of our current political climate. I feel like whenever the church prohibits a substance or action, without a solid scriptural basis, it undermines the authenticity of it's message. Stick to what scripture says on every issue and the gospel will ring true in the ears of those that hear it.
 
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Redeye

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
My wife and I grew up in the Methodist church. But when the church refused to take a stand on homosexuality and homosexuality marraige and the pastor, who is a pacifist refused to pray for our military, it was time to leave and leave quickly. We started attending a Baptist church and have been with them ever since.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Growing up Methodist, I was disappointed in learning how much that denomination "straddled the fence" on those issues as well. Many of my relatives are still Methodist, and my sister is an ordained minister (not pastor) in the Methodist Church, so I will worship with them occasionally, but I don't see ever switching back. On the alcohol issue, as well as some others, like dancing etc, the church is guilty of the same things as the Jewish Religious leaders in Jesus' day. They are making up man made rules and passing them off as "sins". That's why I like to make sure I tell my class what the Bible says on the issue, and that anything else is church doctrine.
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
Gluttony is a sin as well and I know a lot of church members who would be a lot healthier if they had a glass of wine instead of that 4th trip back to the buffet table. But it is not for me to judge...unless they judge me first. Then I tell them that I will consider foregoing that glass of wine when they lose that extra 100 pounds of sin they carry around every day. :)
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I've never held to the notion that when the Bible mentions wine that it's speaking of grape juice, but that's what some would have you to believe. In an age before refrigeration the alcohol content of the liquid actually kept the drink from being dangerous to consume.
There were more alcoholic beverages than just wine, but that tends to be used on both sides of the coin. There are many mentions of "excess" being a form of sin, as well as the mistreating of "God's temple" as in drunkenness and other vices. There are many situations in the Bible that are used as an example and the abuse of alcohol is specifically mentioned as a contributing factor to the degradation of morality , ethical behaviors, ect... It's pretty clear that the abuse of alcohol is spoken strongly against in the Bible, but if the actual drinking of alcohol would have been forbidden, then I think the Bible would have made that very clear as well since it was such a common thing in those days and there were strict rules about the food and drink given very clearly in the Old Testament.
If you are of the type that a beer turns into 12 and you lose your moral character, then I do believe you have sinned against God by indulging in even one beer.

I got into several discussions with local pastors about this. They try to tell me that there was almost zero alcohol in the wine and it was almost like grape juice. It was funny when going to several peoples houses you would often see the alcohol hidden in a cupboard or in the back of the fridge. ;)
 

Zach's Grandpa

Old Mossy Horns
As far as I know from reading studying and research over the last ten plus years nowhere in the Bible does it say that there was no alcohol in the wine. It does say in Gen. 9:21 that Noah got drunk from wine on the boat. I don't blame him one bit for that, with all those stinking animals and griping people Noah had had it. :D

Moderation, moderation, moderation in eating and drinking anything including on occasion alcohol. I don't consume these days but it was from no conscious decision due to religion. I just lost my taste for it and have no desire.
 

Triggermortis

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I have been in Baptist churches, primarily Southern Baptist ones, my entire life. Since there are a wide variety of them, you can find a little difference in almost every one. Early on, I was horrified to know that Presbyterians believed in predestination, and I was quite secure in much more of a self deterministic view of salvation. Many of you may recall that in the 80's, the SBC righted itself and wrested control from liberals which wielded most of the power in the convention, and began to reform the seminaries and mission boards and publishing apparatuses. With conservatism secure, the battle lines are now more drawn, so to speak, between those who believe in election and the doctrines of grace and the ones who are more Arminian or semi-Pelagian. It is within the more Reformed group like those affiliated with the Founders organization that I have found myself after being convinced that election is biblical, even when at times many are uncomfortable with the teaching. It has also meant a departure from dispensational premillenialism to historical premillenialism which is found more in traditional Baptist churches. While the Presbyterian church, except for the PCA branch, has come off of the rails, at least the doctrine that they once held dear has been one that I now agree with. And, in practice, being Reformed varies little from the practice I have been accustomed to from an early age. Just a little more grace and a lot more thankfulness.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
You certainly can't ignore the doctrine of election after reading Ephesians 1. And yet, that does no injustice to free will.

I'm in agreement on historical ("post-trib") premillenialism as well. Dispensational premillenialsm is a rather new idea in the grand scheme of things. Christians for 1800 years have taken at face value what Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2 (and Matthew 24). One has to work pretty hard to make it say otherwise.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
We just did a Sunday School lesson on the Doctrine of Election last week. The way I expalined it was by comparing it to an apple tree. What is the purpose of growing apples? To eat, of course. So, ALL the apples grown on the tree were grown for the purpose of eating...therefore they were ALL "predestined" for consumption. But, some of the apples rotted on the tree, some got wormy, some never ripened, therefore, those apples were not picked (chosen) because they are not good to eat. With God, his desire is that EVERYBODY be "picked", but only those who respond to his word through free will are "good to eat apples". He just happens knows beforehand which apples will be good, (who will respond to Him) and which will be unworthy of consumption.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
I grew up in a Methodist church and was baptized in the Baptist church. I really don't attend church as I work on Sundays, but I do know your relationship with God and our Savior, Jesus Christ on a daily basis very important. If I listen to someone preach I like to here what God says, not what how it can be interpreted by man. I would attend any church/denomination where Christianity and the Bible are taught.

A someone that studied in science I found middle ground. I was once listening to a sermon and it was great until this person insisted that the Earth was 4000 years old and that anyone that thought different was wrong. I lost any other interest of listening, at time time.
 

cmcarter

Six Pointer
We just did a Sunday School lesson on the Doctrine of Election last week. The way I expalined it was by comparing it to an apple tree. What is the purpose of growing apples? To eat, of course. So, ALL the apples grown on the tree were grown for the purpose of eating...therefore they were ALL "predestined" for consumption. But, some of the apples rotted on the tree, some got wormy, some never ripened, therefore, those apples were not picked (chosen) because they are not good to eat. With God, his desire is that EVERYBODY be "picked", but only those who respond to his word through free will are "good to eat apples". He just happens knows beforehand which apples will be good, (who will respond to Him) and which will be unworthy of consumption.

That is a really good analogy. Spot on.
 

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Ditto on alcohol and elders. I say this as a SBC ordained minister...not that it means much. God ordained me and that's what is important to me
 

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Btw...the word used for pastor, bishop, elder, is interchangeable within the original Greek. Its not Biblical for one man to run a church...if so they would be a OT priest
 

seminolewind

Guest
once you open the reformed box church life will never be the same................
 

seminolewind

Guest
Ditto on alcohol and elders. I say this as a SBC ordained minister...not that it means much. God ordained me and that's what is important to me

Would love to know how God ordained you? Did He tell you he ordained you?
 
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DBCooper

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I grew up going to a Friends Church, because that's where my grandparents went, and where many of my family members went. We were just "Christians".

When I was in high school, I lived several miles from the Friends Church, and many of my friends started going to the Church of Christ. It was nice. We were just "Christians".

I left for college and attended a Baptist college. I accepted Jesus as my savior, there. It was a very special place and time in my life. All I remember was....we were all just "Christians".

I spent the summer of 1985 as a waterfront director in the Catskills.....working at a Catholic camp for kids. That was another very spiritual and extremely pleasing Christian experience.

Since those days.....it seems all I hear of ....is what's DIFFERENT about all of us Christians, instead of how we're all alike. I got tired of people keeping score, and I've sworn off organized religion. I appreciate conversations with others who are interested more in ALL of us making it......rather than decreeing why they ARE going to make it...and the "other guy" isn't. I think a LOT of organized religion today is the most foul form of class warfare I can imagine. So, I choose to have no part in it.

I am not a religious person. I have a relationship with God. I am simply a believer. I hope that's enough. I wish you luck, also.
 
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Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I never knew what a Friends Meeting Church was until I moved to NC. I still had no idea until I worked with a nurse that attended services at such a church.
I've attended services in a wide variety of southern churches and quite a few in the central part of the country and there are good folks in all of them. I always preferred the dinner on the ground churches, but the "take the preacher and family to lunch" churches were nice too. The most interesting church that my Dad ever pastored was in Grandview, TN, the people of the church provided everything including coal for the furnace for the pastor. Our pantry was stocked with home canned foods, smoked hams, fresh and frozen vegetables...it was amazing. We didn't even cut our own yard(we lived in the parsonage). Those people were amazing and I still miss them after all these years.
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I have an Aunt and Uncle, with 5 kids that attended a Friends Church. I went to church with them many times over the years. Couldn't really tell much difference in their service than what I was used to in the Methodist Church.
One thing to keep in mind about denominations. Denominations, at least to begin with, were simply different preferences in worshiping God. There is only ONE way to God and heaven, which is through Jesus Christ, but there are a multitude of ways to worship Him. Now, that being said, there are a lot of denominations today that are deviating from the word of God in what they "believe", and succumbing to "pop culture" and political correctness. Before you join a church, it is imperative that you read, understand and agree with their stated belief...meaning it should line up with sound biblical doctrine.
 

Helium

Old Mossy Horns
Would love to know how God ordained you? Did He tell you he ordained you?

1st of all..."all Christians are called to be ministers"as the Bible clearly teaches. 2nd of all when God calls you He ordain you!

I'm not against man's ordination..it's simply a check and balance or stamp of approval
 
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