Grass Roots North Carolina / Steve Troxler & Deer Farming

BR549

Twelve Pointer
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BigBow

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I am confused... has the NCWRC changed its position on maintaining its control of deer farming? Is it now supporting deer farming to be transferred to Troxler's Dept. of Agriculture from the NCWRC? I have already e-mailed the Comm. of Ag., Steven Troxler, the Speaker of the House, Tim Moore, and my District State House Representative, Jacqueline Schaeffer, demanding that SB 513 Section 14 be deleted from the Farm Bill. Grass Roots NC, QDMA, Farm Bureau, NC Wildlife Federation, Camo Coalition, NCBA, public opinion, and the vast majority of deer hunters have voiced their opposition to changing the deer farming jurisdiction to the Dept. of Ag. & allowing the expansion of deer farming in NC. If SB 513 w/ Section 14 passes the State House of Representatives we may all be seeing the beginning of our deer hunting heritage going down the drain. Please contact your District House of Representative & let them know your opposition to deer farming and that their re-election depends on taxpayers votes like yourselves.
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
To further Catfish's post, let's not loose sight of one powerful Rep whom has long pushed to loosen the strings on Deer Farming. This same Rep (Roger West) is the Chair of the appropriations committee. WRC remains dependent on approx $10M in state funds for it's budget. For items like fish hatchery's youth recruitment and retention and other key important aspects that go to serve the citizens of North Carolina.

I was relieved hearing Troxler publicly state the transfer is not something he asked for. Again pointing ALL fingers back within the General Assembly!

And that folks is Bu11 $hit...
 
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BigBow

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Sounds like the NCWRC is in House of Representative Roger West's back pocket and they are having to concede to whatever he declares they are worthy of monetarily if they do not go along with his deer farming & Dept of Ag. charade. Roger is the weasel that is in bed with ex Food Lion CEO Tom E Smith, the N.A. Deer Farming Alliance, and the very small minority of others that are pushing the expansion of deer farming in NC.
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
NCWRC was able to get no importation until approval of a live CWD test & no captive deer high fenced hunt facilities **as defined by USDA Program Standards. Understand the deer farm lobby was dead set on a transfer to the department of AG. So what NC Hunters have now is slightly improved than what good-ol Roger West shoved up 250k hunters @$$'es during the 2014 short session budget.

That all happened on purpose so NO debate would occur and to avoid the democratic principles our country was founded on.
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
Let me b clear, as it stands now oversight will transfer to NCDA, No Criminal Penalties (deer farmers got it changed to CIVIL) As NCDA has NO Criminal Enforcement Officers and can only write civil fines. Yes, "Not to exceed $5000 & at the sole decresion of the AG Comm"!
 
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Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Sounds like the NCWRC is in House of Representative Roger West's back pocket and they are having to concede to whatever he declares they are worthy of monetarily if they do not go along with his deer farming & Dept of Ag. charade. Roger is the weasel that is in bed with ex Food Lion CEO Tom E Smith, the N.A. Deer Farming Alliance, and the very small minority of others that are pushing the expansion of deer farming in NC.

No, the WRC has been fighting this for several years. Sometimes you lose battles and have to switch over to damage control.…
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
NC Deer and Elk Farmers ask the NCGA for support -

From: NC Deer and Elk Farmers Association <ncdefa@hotmail.com<mailto:ncdefa@hotmail.com>>

Date: August 23, 2015 at 9:19:33 PM EDTSubject: Support NC Farm Bill and The Deer and Elk Transfer to Ag.

North Carolina Needs to Support NC Farm Bill and the Captive Deer and Elk Transfer: Many NC Citizens and Hunters along with NCDA C&S, NC Wildlife Resource Commission and the National Farm Bureau do support this bill.

Senators and Representatives, again there has been so much mud slinging during this debate that it has really got out of hand. The small group that has been telling untrue statements against deer farming are now trying to bash Senator Jackson, Senator Brock, Representative Roger West and Agriculture Commissioner Steve Troxler with the same type of tactics.

These groups that are against deer farming are using CWD for their personal agendas to go against the deer farming industry here in NC with lies. But instead of listening to people that spends their money on ads and campaigns, we need to listen to the people that are responsible for the science, agriculture and wildlife within our great state. The NCWRC, NCDA&CS, and the National Farm Bureau agrees with this transfer and supports it. Executive Director Gordon Myers with NCWRC and staff from the NCDA&CS has spent considerable time writing this bill for the safety of NC. With this bill those NC departments and the NC Deer & Elk Farmers Association wants to be proactive and not reactive.

* Deer farming is an industry that is supported by many states. Just Recently Missouri Court of Appeals stated that deer within a farm is the property of the owner and not the state.

* This bill will protect the wildlife while building an agriculture industry here in NC with NCDA. The NCDA has a wealth of knowledge involving animal husbandry and how to promote agriculture.

* The Department of Agriculture has many veterinarians that deal with animals and the only state diagnostic lab system. NCWRC has (1) vet that deals with the entire state.

* You have heard that CWD has been the Ebola of the deer industry and that it has decimated deer herds. Fact is there is not any state that has CWD can contribute CWD to a decline of there deer populations.

* USDA has CWD standards that was developed with years of study and millions of dollars to help promote Deer Farming. With this bill we will be following those standards with the exception we will not import any animals that can contract CWD.

* Some representatives have been told that the NC Wildlife Commission is against us. The Fact is the NC Wildlife Commission supports this bill and they are the ones that support the 350,000 NC hunters in this state. Those groups against this bill claim that they support the hunters, but they just want to rally the hunters with lies so that the hunter&#8217;s money can support them.

* The Farm bill only puts the animals under the control of the agriculture department and allows the NC Wildlife authority over any possible illegal movement.

* This bill only puts more restrictions on importation so it doesn&#8217;t open the state up for importation.

Please look through the smoke that has been blown and listen to your own regulatory agencies that you have in place.
&#12288;
Thanks for your dedication and support,
&#12288;
The NC Deer and Elk Farmers Association
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
The Department of Agriculture has many veterinarians that deal with animals and the only state diagnostic lab system. NCWRC has (1) vet that deals with the entire state.

Is this true?
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
Given NCDA / CS has oversight over Millions of Cattle, Chickens, Turkeys and Swine within NC, the Deer Farmers are Waaaaa Better off having their own dedicated Vet (paid for by sportsman) to over see the 177 Whitetail Deer.

The argument of Ag having 40 Vets thus 5 Commercial Deer Farmers are going to get more service is DOA.
 
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BigBow

Ten Pointer
Contributor
NC Deer and Elk Farmers ask the NCGA for support -

From: NC Deer and Elk Farmers Association <ncdefa@hotmail.com<mailto:ncdefa@hotmail.com>>

Date: August 23, 2015 at 9:19:33 PM EDTSubject: Support NC Farm Bill and The Deer and Elk Transfer to Ag.

North Carolina Needs to Support NC Farm Bill and the Captive Deer and Elk Transfer: Many NC Citizens and Hunters along with NCDA C&S, NC Wildlife Resource Commission and the National Farm Bureau do support this bill.

Senators and Representatives, again there has been so much mud slinging during this debate that it has really got out of hand. The small group that has been telling untrue statements against deer farming are now trying to bash Senator Jackson, Senator Brock, Representative Roger West and Agriculture Commissioner Steve Troxler with the same type of tactics.

These groups that are against deer farming are using CWD for their personal agendas to go against the deer farming industry here in NC with lies. But instead of listening to people that spends their money on ads and campaigns, we need to listen to the people that are responsible for the science, agriculture and wildlife within our great state. The NCWRC, NCDA&CS, and the National Farm Bureau agrees with this transfer and supports it. Executive Director Gordon Myers with NCWRC and staff from the NCDA&CS has spent considerable time writing this bill for the safety of NC. With this bill those NC departments and the NC Deer & Elk Farmers Association wants to be proactive and not reactive.

* Deer farming is an industry that is supported by many states. Just Recently Missouri Court of Appeals stated that deer within a farm is the property of the owner and not the state.

* This bill will protect the wildlife while building an agriculture industry here in NC with NCDA. The NCDA has a wealth of knowledge involving animal husbandry and how to promote agriculture.

* The Department of Agriculture has many veterinarians that deal with animals and the only state diagnostic lab system. NCWRC has (1) vet that deals with the entire state.

* You have heard that CWD has been the Ebola of the deer industry and that it has decimated deer herds. Fact is there is not any state that has CWD can contribute CWD to a decline of there deer populations.

* USDA has CWD standards that was developed with years of study and millions of dollars to help promote Deer Farming. With this bill we will be following those standards with the exception we will not import any animals that can contract CWD.

* Some representatives have been told that the NC Wildlife Commission is against us. The Fact is the NC Wildlife Commission supports this bill and they are the ones that support the 350,000 NC hunters in this state. Those groups against this bill claim that they support the hunters, but they just want to rally the hunters with lies so that the hunter’s money can support them.

* The Farm bill only puts the animals under the control of the agriculture department and allows the NC Wildlife authority over any possible illegal movement.

* This bill only puts more restrictions on importation so it doesn’t open the state up for importation.

Please look through the smoke that has been blown and listen to your own regulatory agencies that you have in place.
 
Thanks for your dedication and support,
 
The NC Deer and Elk Farmers Association

Well, i guess we will all find out who the liars are after Section 14 is shoved down our throats & deer farming is expanded throughout NC. Sure hope the NCD&EFA knows what it is talking about concerning CWD. I still think I smell a skunk!
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
NC Deer and Elk Farmers ask the NCGA for support -
* Some representatives have been told that the NC Wildlife Commission is against us. The Fact is the NC Wildlife Commission supports this bill and they are the ones that support the 350,000 NC hunters in this state. Those groups against this bill claim that they support the hunters, but they just want to rally the hunters with lies so that the hunter’s money can support them.

Being strong-armed is not the same as supporting. That said, you'd think that whoever was writing an official letter/release would actually proofread it. This makes me question the writer's competence…just saying…
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
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This is the best, $249K of Sportsman license funds are spent to buy out deer pens 9 yrs ago and now the "General Assembly" mandates and directs the WRC re-issue the same license(s) for "fifty bucks" each!
 

hunter

Eight Pointer
Contributor
Being strong-armed is not the same as supporting. That said, you'd think that whoever was writing an official letter/release would actually proofread it. This makes me question the writer's competence…just saying…

What I have been hearing is that Director Myers and Roger West were buds and Myers has been trying to get deer farms over to Ag for a while. Especially if it gets him out of a jam. Myers and West apparently had a falling out over the possum drop thing when Myers botched the legislation and lost to peta (another $75,000 of our license dollars gone to peta) causing West to be much embarrassed. West didn't like the operation something bruin either! Most of the commissioners don't want deer farming but Myers is telling them they can't fight it while he is scratching the deer farmers backs..... He apparently doesn't deer hunt so he really don't give a .....
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
Roger has MAJOR EGG on his face with his Trumped Up "Somm-in Brewin" sting against WRC that has "Now" Gone Wrong! Put this in the same category as his $75k Possum Drop and his soon to be failed Deer Farming Agenda!

Here is a much different perspective - The one Roger West likely doesn't want the public to know!!

The below is right from the Colonel whom was in charge of the operation -




Since I retired to Alleghany County, it has become increasing apparent that hunting, fishing, hiking, paddling, camping, etc. all generate jobs and revenue in small, rural counties like ours.

I will pass along my best recollections of Operation Something Bruin. Since I am recalling from memory, some of my dates or order of events may be a little off. But, I will give you an overview as best as I can remember.

In 2008 or 2009, US Forest Service (USFS) law enforcement officers, NC wildlife officers, and Georgia DNR officers met to discuss the continued reports of bear hunting violations they had received in southwestern NC and northern Georgia. These reports included closed season hunting, exceeding the bag limit, hunting with the use of illegal bait, the sale of bear parts such as gall bladders (these bring a high price on the Asian market), and unlicensed guided hunts (in addition to a required state guide license, the USFS requires a permit and insurance for hunts on Forest Service lands). These are violation that are sometimes difficult for uniformed officers from a single agency to address. In this meeting, the officers shared multiple reports of violations that crossed jurisdictional boundaries. It was determined that the best way to discern if these reports were valid was to send undercover officers into these communities to investigate whether violations were actually occurring.

This began in the fall of 2009. A USFS officer and Georgia DNR officer began making contacts throughout this region. They found widespread disregard for wildlife laws in that area and numerous potential violations.

In 2010, these two officers begin undercover operations in southwestern NC and northwestern Georgia. The US Fish and Wildlife Service also furnished an officer for some operations. In 2010 officers detected numerous violations and the need for at least another year of work.

In 2011, NC furnished an officer to the operation. Sgt. Chad Arnold worked in a covert capacity for much of 2011 and 2012. Sgt. Arnold is a highly respected officer with a keen attention to detail. His activities were monitored continually by myself and Major Todd Kennedy. After each operational element, Sgt. Arnold checked in with us to lets us know what he was doing and where he was working, and to submit activity reports. I had, and continue to have, complete trust in Sgt. Arnold&#8217;s judgement and abilities

Undercover operations began to wind down in 2012 as we moved toward the arrest phase. As with any similar type operation, it could have continued on forever, with each contact leading to others.

Throughout the investigation, we were aware of the potential conservation impact of the violations that were witnessed. We knew there was a balance of making as strong of case as possible and protecting this public trust resource. We were also aware of the public perception that we allowed animals to be killed needlessly. And finally, we worked to ensure that our officers did not create opportunities for violations.

One violation that came to light during the investigation took place in Haywood County. There, officers found two fenced enclosures in which bear hunters trained their dogs. The enclosures were approximately 200-300 acres in size, completely fenced with woven wire and had electric fencing at the top and bottom. Bears were trapped and moved into these enclosures. There bears were then run with dogs, often twice a day, virtually every day. These enclosures generated complaints from legitimate hunters and local citizens. Charges had previously been brought against the manger of one of these enclosures without successful prosecution. So, we wanted to build as strong of case as possible before bringing charges again.

Throughout this operation, the undercover officers often worked alone in extremely remote areas without the benefit of backup officers. Many of the suspects abused prescription pills and other illegal drugs. Many of the operations took place at night deep in the Great Smoky Mtn. National Park or on Fontana Lake. The officers faced risks from the geography and weather, as well as the individuals.

In early 2013 we began drafting arrest and search warrants. These warrants were a combination state and federal charges. The district attorney&#8217;s office for the 30th Judicial District and the US Attorney&#8217;s office were involved in this process; reviewing violations, charges, and warrants.

There were approximately 900 violations on these individuals. Some were relatively minor violations and we chose not to pursue those charges. Many offenses were violations of both state and federal laws. Because of the timeline that begins when someone is charged with federal crimes, we chose to charge many of those individuals with state charges first. When federal charges were brought later, we dismissed the state charges to prevent the persons for being prosecuted twice for the same offense. Much has been made of the fact that many state charges were dropped. This was done intentionally and was planned from the beginning.

Close to a week before the arrest date, a leak of information occurred. In the days before the actual arrests were to take place, much of the region knew there were impending arrests. The leak could have occurred in many places, but we felt certain it was generated from the Haywood County Courthouse. There was even a sheriff&#8217;s deputy from an adjoining county who called his hunting friends and told them that arrests were about to occur.

This leak created a heightened sense of danger for the arrests phase. We ensured there were an adequate number of officers at each arrest location. These were complex arrests and searches that required numerous officers in addition to officers whose sole duty was to provide security for the officers conducting the searches.

Much has been reported about how the arrests and searches were conducted. Virtually all of those reports are completely wrong or a misrepresentation of the events. The NC officers live in these communities. Their kids go to school with the kids of these law violators. The officers handled the people with respect. There were no forced entries. When children were present, the officers worked with the defendants to make arrangements for handling the kids in the least disruptive manner as possible. In all case, family member or neighbors were called to assist although contacting social services would also have been an option.

It is unfortunate that this law enforcement operation has been seized and used for political purposes. Grassroots NC, an extreme right-wing firearms groups issued an &#8220;alert&#8221; for &#8220;jack-booted thug tactics&#8221; which resulted in a flood of mass generated emails. Attorneys for these defendants have continually fanned the flames to keep money flowing in (each of these public forums has turned into an advertisement for the attorneys). There have be inaccurate facts leaked to the press which have been recirculated as the truth. An overzealous TV reporter assaulted Sgt. Arnold&#8217;s father during ratings sweeps week.

Meanwhile, the NCWRC can&#8217;t speak to many of these issues because of how the public records laws are written. Attorneys in the case know that and use this &#8220;stonewalling&#8221; to fuel their public arguments that something is being hidden.

The officers&#8217; actions have been investigated and reviewed through internal, agency investigations; by the US Attorney&#8217;s office; and by the state prosecutor. Over and over again, these investigations have found that the officers went above and beyond what was expected of them to ensure these defendants were treated fairly and respectfully. The NCWRC commissioners have been briefed many times and have supported the officers.

I am proud of how our officer conducted themselves during the investigation, during the arrests and in the days since the prosecution. However, it has taken a toll on the officers in terms of morale. Yet, these officers continue to handle themselves in a professional manner.

Thank you for the chance to share some of the basic facts of this case. If I can be of further assistance, don&#8217;t hesitate to contact me.

Dale
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
Grass Roots North Carolina / Steve Troxler &amp;amp; Deer Farming

No one should allow an elected official to STEAMROLL any of the Great employees of North Carolina!

Anyone care to stand up with me? Elected officials are sent to Raleigh to "Work" for us, the voters.

For Roger West to only allow one side of the story to be told is BS. I hope the voting sportsman are appreciative of hearing another perspective.

Each can decide from here, but nevertheless are better informed.
 
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BigBow

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but did I read something recently saying that CWD had been found in 29 states, all which had deer farming facilities.
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
No, a few states have CWD but no deer farming, 3-4 states. Does not mean they do not have illegally imported deer inserted into private privacy fences though. But yes there are a few states with no deer farming and CWD.
 

BigBow

Ten Pointer
Contributor
No, a few states have CWD but no deer farming, 3-4 states. Does not mean they do not have illegally imported deer inserted into private privacy fences though. But yes there are a few states with no deer farming and CWD.

So, do you know if all states that have deer farming have also had cases of CWD?
 
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