Microsoft's dishonesty with customers is uncovered

nccatfisher

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Doesn't surprise me one bit, I mean why would they offer an item free that they would otherwise sell you?
 

Zach's Grandpa

Old Mossy Horns
We have very little privacy left whether we are on a computer, a phone, in a retail business shopping, or driving down the street. We are being watched and tracked, and listened to if we say certain words or phrases. It's the way of life in this world we live in and the progression of it falls right in line with the prophecy written in the Bible.
 
roundball

roundball

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The notion of tracking is not the new news...yes, all the biggies do as much as they can.
The aspect of blatant dishonesty is the point of the discovery.

Microsoft provides what appears to be very thorough "Opt Out" capability for Win10 users.
BUT...that's apparently just "window dressing"...in spite of an End User unchecking all the data tracking options, Microsoft Win10 still secretly collects it anyway.
 
EMB

EMB

Ten Pointer
What they track your IP address for is future needs, trends and companies who want to know what you're looking at for future advertisements. Anytime you click on a web site your IP address is being logged by that company and whoever does their web site as well. Why do you think you get spam in your e-mail accounts? Unfortunately as much as everyone wants to say the internet is free, someone has to pay for it, and this is how it is done.

I haven't installed it and I doubt if I will until my Windows 7 quits on me! Windows 10 free still says BETA on it, that means all the bugs are still there.

Plus it is no different than your mobile phone, which is tracked everywhere, especially if you use apps.
 
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woodmoose

woodmoose

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nccatfisher said:
Doesn't surprise me one bit, I mean why would they offer an item free that they would otherwise sell you?
Click to expand...

exactly,,,,,there is a reason it's "free",,,,,,and last I checked Microsoft was still a "for profit" enterprise,,,,,,,always have to look at where a company is making their money, much less paying for development costs,,,,,,,has to come from somewhere,,,,,,,
 
wl704

wl704

Ten Pointer
Zach's Grandpa said:
We have NO privacy left whether we are on a computer, a phone, in a retail business shopping, or driving down the street...
Click to expand...

Corrected.
Any connected device (mobile phone, computers, cable/sat box, fitness tracker, or other iot device) or transmitting device is trackable and you're almost certainly being tracked.

Many stores use your devices, their own transmitters, cameras and/or loyalty cards to track your path, time at products of interest, purchases, profitability, revenue, etc.

And on and on...

Oh, and data about you is a business in and of itself.
 
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roundball

roundball

Old Mossy Horns
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woodmoose said:
exactly,,,,,there is a reason it's "free",,,,,,and last I checked Microsoft was still a "for profit" enterprise,,,,,,,always have to look at where a company is making their money, much less paying for development costs,,,,,,,has to come from somewhere,,,,,,,
Click to expand...

Just to clarify a couple things:
1) Windows 10 is not free for the general public...only as a free upgrade from certain existing windows operating systems;
2) The point of the article was not about companies tracking...everybody knows they do that.

The point of the article was Microsoft's blatant dishonesty:
They designed Win10 with all sorts of data tracking "opt out" options for the end user because end users didn't want to be tracked, etc.
BUT...in spite of end users turning them all off, Microsoft's win10 still secretly collects and reports their personal data.

PS: CNN has now also had news coverage about it.
 
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woodmoose

woodmoose

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roundball said:
1) Windows 10 is not free for the general public...only as a free upgrade from certain existing windows operating systems;
2) The point of the article was not about companies tracking...everybody knows they do that.
Click to expand...

yes, don't disagree on that

yes, they are sneaky in their method maybe,,,,but expect "dishonest" won't get proven in a court as I expect somewhere in the minitua of the Windows 10 license agreement that has to be "checked" to get the install there are words to the effect that you WILL get tracked,,,no matter how many "opt out" boxes are unchecked,,,,,,,,if they don't then they will be open for a lawsuit,,,,and I don't expect a multi-billion dollar company to have such lousy contracts attorneys to miss that item,,,,,,

but I could be wrong
 
roundball

roundball

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I'm sure their legal-eze is written to a fine art form.

But...the bottom line of the article is that when installing Win10, Microsoft sets up a user into thinking:
"Oh...I can opt-out of all this tracking stuff by just unchecking all these opt-out choices".
And the test of reasonableness is that any reasonable individual across this country would then believe they would not be tracked.

But then Microsoft goes right on and tracks it anyway...pure deceit / dishonesty.
I'll be surprised if a groundswell of bad PR doesn't cost them sales...
 
Ldsoldier

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
roundball said:
I'm sure their legal-eze is written to a fine art form.

But...the bottom line of the article is that when installing Win10, Microsoft sets up a user into thinking:
"Oh...I can opt-out of all this tracking stuff by just unchecking all these opt-out choices".
And the test of reasonableness is that any reasonable individual across this country would then believe they would not be tracked.

But then Microsoft goes right on and tracks it anyway...pure deceit / dishonesty.
I'll be surprised if a groundswell of bad PR doesn't cost them sales...
Click to expand...

The only real alternative is Apple. Most people will grumble and keep on keeping on.
 
Pirate96

Pirate96

Twelve Pointer
Ldsoldier said:
The only real alternative is Apple. Most people will grumble and keep on keeping on.
Click to expand...

No, the only option is completely open source. That is the only way you can see the source code. Apple is still closed source! Apple was very smart to hire a bunch of Free BSD guys and develop OS X, but is still closed source.
 
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Tipmoose

Tipmoose

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I notice that there is no information about what data was transmitted to Microsoft or if there even was any transmitted. All it said was that the OS tried to connect to various Microsoft IP addresses. Which addresses and why those addresses would be contacted was missing as well as any info on which data, if any, was transmitted to those addresses.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
woodmoose

woodmoose

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Tipmoose said:
I notice that there is no information about what data was transmitted to Microsoft or if there even was any transmitted. All it said was that the OS tried to connect to various Microsoft IP addresses. Which addresses and why those addresses would be contacted was missing as well as any info on which data, if any, was transmitted to those addresses.
Click to expand...

I know you know this better than I,,,,but I expect that's cause they either have no idea or there was nothing actually transmitted,,,,,,could have been as innocent as the system checking for system updates,,,,,,,but that doesn't make good copy or gossip,,,,,,,
 
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NCST8GUY

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
That was a strange article imho. I noticed a LOT of the side ads and what not were pretty spammy looking.

I understand the purpose of some tracking, can't hide from it, regardless of OS to my knowledge. If I look at amazon.com for chainsaws, then log on facebook, chainsaw adds will appear on the right side of the screen.
 
Ldsoldier

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Pirate96 said:
No, the only option is completely open source. That is the only way you can see the source code. Apple is still closed source! Apple was very smart to hire a bunch of Free BSD guys and develop OS X, but is still closed source.
Click to expand...

Good luck finding an open source OS that actually works with more than a small subset of programs. Heck, Apple just came back into the mainstream maybe 10 years ago. They're still catching up with MS in market share. Add to that the fact that the code looks like gibberish to the average person, so it wouldn't really matter anyway. While open source programs are catching on, I doubt you'll ever see a mainstream open source OS. Linux is probably the closest anybody's ever come.
 
Pirate96

Pirate96

Twelve Pointer
Ldsoldier said:
Good luck finding an open source OS that actually works with more than a small subset of programs. Heck, Apple just came back into the mainstream maybe 10 years ago. They're still catching up with MS in market share. Add to that the fact that the code looks like gibberish to the average person, so it wouldn't really matter anyway. While open source programs are catching on, I doubt you'll ever see a mainstream open source OS. Linux is probably the closest anybody's ever come.
Click to expand...

Linux is main stream and dominant! Look at Raleigh's very own Red Hat building. There are much better alternatives than Microsoft or Apple. Have not run Windows in over 7 years for Work or Personal Reasons. Nothing that I have missed out on except the bloatware and viruses. Neither of those were wanted anyway!
 
Ldsoldier

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Go ask 20 random people on the street what Linux is. Most will have never heard of it. I hadn't heard of it till I went to NCSU.
 
Firedog

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
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woodmoose said:
exactly,,,,,there is a reason it's "free",,,,,,and last I checked Microsoft was still a "for profit" enterprise,,,,,,,always have to look at where a company is making their money, much less paying for development costs,,,,,,,has to come from somewhere,,,,,,,
Click to expand...

Only upgrades are free and they are that way to encourage most users to upgrade and in the end reduce support cost at MS because they will stop supporting Win7.. they have already announced that.. and it is only free for a certain amount of time. In addition, they are about to take the price up on Win 10 significantly (2x in some cases) and they are going to base that increase not on enhancements to the software but based only on the hardware you put it on.. if you have what they consider to be a high end system, then you will pay more for the same software from the manufacturer.

Not saying that they do not monetize the information they gather but that is not the only reason the upgrade is free.
 
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Firedog

Firedog

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Contributor
Pirate96 said:
Linux is main stream and dominant! Look at Raleigh's very own Red Hat building. There are much better alternatives than Microsoft or Apple. Have not run Windows in over 7 years for Work or Personal Reasons. Nothing that I have missed out on except the bloatware and viruses. Neither of those were wanted anyway!
Click to expand...

Linux is great but it is a VERY SMALL % of PCs.. matter of fact is a fairly small % of Server OS's in the market. It may someday be the the top OS but it is a long way from that at the moment. I assume when you say dominant you are referring to the OS itself not market share.
 

Harpoon

Guest
A business associate in medical field has to physically take his laptop running current "popular" software into a local brick and mortar office location on "their" server of a very large local Health Care System, or it will be deemed: unauthorized license or similar.....will not work without updates.

We were discussing this this AM, having a problem with a name brand software product.....

He was saying how one could build a firewall and stop the upload of "data", but with these "authenticity" checks/cookies built in, the mfg of software can get their way to open access or shut you down.

Everyone and their brother is collecting data these days.
 
woodmoose

woodmoose

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Firedog said:
Only upgrades are free and they are that way to encourage most users to upgrade and in the end reduce support cost at MS because they will stop supporting Win7.. they have already announced that.. and it is only free for a certain amount of time. In addition, they are about to take the price up on Win 10 significantly (2x in some cases) and they are going to base that increase not on enhancements to the software but based only on the hardware you put it on.. if you have what they consider to be a high end system, then you will pay more for the same software from the manufacturer.

Not saying that they do not monetize the information they gather but that is not the only reason the upgrade is free.
Click to expand...

of course,,,,the gist was that even free (whether upgrade or whatever) comes with some price,,,,,,evident or not,,,,,
 
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