What is considered a "good Christian"

Jake NFC

Twelve Pointer
Reading, studying and sharing the Gospel using my New American Standard Bible will not keep me out of heaven I can assure you of that.
 

41magfan

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
The bottom line regarding scripture - regardless of your preferred translation - is that the important stuff like John 3:16 can be understood by a child. The "jot and tittle" must be revealed to you by spiritual revelation. The HS cannot be hindered by any translation nor can you acquire spiritual discernment by clinging to a particular interpretation.

There are droves of Hebrew and Greek scholars out there that are absolutely clueless about the "spiritual" things enumerated in the Bible.
 
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drum3rguy

Eight Pointer
Sure, there are several examples, but a few that come to mind are the LDS version of the KJV which is also used at times by the JW..it's called the "authorized" version of the KJV, The many different versions of the Catholic Bible which denounce the KJV...and the many modern translations that either leave out or mistranslate scripture altogether.
The KJV is the only version that I am aware of that has been "tried" by multiple groups of scholars in blind testing against the original scripts of the times and found to be the most accurate translation that has withstood the tests of time.

The JW are not Christian. They may claim to be, but they are missing out on some key components, namely the deity of Christ. The LDS, I admit, I am not as familiar with. Upon doing some google searching, they say they are "non-creedal" Christians, which is to say they deny the Nicene Creed because it was a political stance, and not a religious one.

It's not surprising that some of these fringe groups have changed some of the Bible to better fit their beliefs. I don't agree with it, but it's not surprising.

What I have issue with is those who hold a KJV-only mentality who say there are serious errors with other, more modern translations and their use by believers today, but their issues bear more resemblance with conspiracy theories than with factual arguments.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The HS cannot be hindered by any translation nor can you acquire spiritual discernment by clinging to a particular interpretation.

Well said.

I believe most of the modern translations make a careful, honest attempt to get it right. Some are word for word, others thought for thought. That doesn't make one or the other perverted to push an agenda. While some are better than others, I disagree with anyone that claims any English translation is the only "right" one.
 

Crappie_Hunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
^ I've always told people the best translation of the Bible is one they can read and understand... well said sky hawk
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I too have not read cover to cover, but have read 75% or more. You will need to hop from OT to NT. OT has some tough reading. Most of the NT is easy going.

Personally, i beleive that book is the basis of a Godly relationship. I beleive Church is important but not many of the places/groups that claim to be Church today.
 

pattersonj11

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The best understanding is the one you take away from the book. What another person reads and understands is their interpretation. Thats the biggest issue i have found with pastors.
 

Triggermortis

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
To the OP's original question, "What makes a good Christian?', my thoughts turn to what makes Jesus so attractive. The more someone looks like Him, the more distinctive they are and the the more you want to be around them. At least for me, the people that remind me most of Christ are the ones who are gracious, thankful, faithful, loving, and have godly wisdom. You can go to church a lot, give a lot, read your Bible a lot, and do a lot of other things, and still miss becoming like Christ. I think that people who are given to prayer, given to heart change, and who are drenched with humility and walking with God and desiring to seek His face and know Him are the ones who are the most attractive. You might say these are the "good Christians", but if you ask anyone who looks like that they will be the first to refuse that description.
 

n.d.woods

Eight Pointer
I'll make this simple,

Good Christian, one who realized what Christ did is completely free yet will cost them their life at the same time.

Bad Christian (would never use this terminology except for in reply for such a question) one who looks at Jesus as what can you do for me, never in turn desiring to know what they can do for him.

But hey judgement isn't up to us, Christ will take care of that when we are at the judgement throne. Some Christians will be rewarded with heavenly treasures and authority and rule with Christ. Others work will be burned up and all they will have is their salvation.

Your question is actually very good and deep, and the answer as Grandma Ivy said in Pure Country, it is found in the search, in the search of the Word and the Lord. You got what it takes. Go live for Jesus!
 

Soilman

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I think the term "good Christian" is a misnomer. Isn't part of the definition of "Christian" doing right (or good) in the eyes of the Lord? I'm just gonna try to be a Christian...and I'll let the Lord decide how "good" I did at it, because I'm afraid my definition of "good" might pale in comparison to His definition of it.
 

seminolewind

Guest
Once you have been saved you become a Christian "Justification". Then the long, frustrating, confusing walk of "Sanctification" starts and things become blurred as to good and bad. Saying a Christian is "so" bad they aren't saved is silly. Conversely, saying a Christian is "so" good they are a saint is silly. Yet, it is also required to have a "standard" (hopefully from Scripture and NOT man created = legalism v grace*) to regulate the body of Christ by elders, etc. All the time applying grace when we fall short of the standard - which is all the time.

So to the OP, you asked a great question and now start the process of unfolding your questions through the inspired word of God. Your efforts and prayer will lead you to many revelations, discoveries, etc...... the scales falling away from your eyes is a great way to think about it?
 
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41magfan

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
When addressed as “Good teacher …” Jesus ask the question “Why do you call me good. No one is good but God.” To keep this passage in context, Jesus was inquiring as to whether the questioner actually had a revelation of who Jesus really was – that is, God in the flesh. Now, this isn’t the real context of your question but Jesus nonetheless addressed the issue; no one is “good” but God.

Nothing you can “do” by human effort will make you “good” ….. and that includes going to church, memorizing the Bible, giving to the poor or living like a Monk.

Going to church should be for the purpose of fellowship with other like-minded people. Hebrews 10:24 & 25 addresses that. Living the life of a Christian in isolation can be difficult, but it doesn’t mean you can only find that in a church building.

Reading the Bible should be an inward desire. If you do it for any other reason, it’s probably not going to be meaningful. But, you CANNOT develop a relationship with Jesus apart from scripture – that’s our bridge to knowing and understanding Him. What kind of relationship could you have with someone if you never spent any time with them? In this dispensation, The Word is the nexus between us and God.

First off, ask God to reveal himself to you. He promises to do just that if you ask with a sincere heart. Instead of reading the Bible from front to back, read the Book of John (multiple times if necessary) and ask God where to go from there.

Prayer is nothing but talking to God, and most of my prayers don't involve asking for things. I pray continually (not continuously) about everything, too. God obviously doesn’t answer all of my prayers (if I'm asking for something) immediately but more times than not, I will eventually get an answer …. even if it’s not the one I want.

I’ve also learned to pray for his help and guidance in the simplest of things and on more than a few occasions, he has IMMEDIATELY given me the ability or opportunity to do something that seemed impossible. Here's a recent example: I took an old Colt revolver apart and despite my best effort, a tiny spring got launched with great force. This spring is small enough to fit in a watch, but I still heard it ricochet off several objects before it came to rest somewhere. I spent a LONG time on my hands and knees looking for the spring with no results. The part is no longer produced and is expensive when you can find it. The gun was going to be reduced to a paperweight if I couldn't find it.

Instead of praying first, I did what most believers probably do - pray for help after I've failed by my own efforts. I got down on my knees for the hundredth time and began searching again. When failure appeared to be certain, I stood up and almost immediately heard a small "tick". I looked down and there was the spring lying right next to my foot. If the spring had been stepped on - even once - it would have been ruined. These instances develop my FAITH and make it easier for me to trust and rely on Him more!

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING; You’ve got to “believe” the right things about God before you can attempt to live for Him. Develop your beliefs carefully by reading The Word and seeking spiritual discernment.

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 ...... there's your promise. Go for it - if you mean it!!
 
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DFisher

Eight Pointer
WOW!

Yes, go to church as much as possible, to associate with, and be held accountable by, like-minded Christians. Without church, you are less likely to have anyone to hold you accountable.

Yes, read the Bible as much as possible, to learn more about God and the life he wants you to lead. Without direction, you can never reach the destination.

These two things can really add to building your relationship with Christ. Learn what is desired of you, and pray for strength and direction, build that relationship, and share it with as many people as you can.
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
Having met Christians from nearly every type of Church and Sect, and seeing true faith in their hearts, I think that it simply amounts to belief that Jesus died for Mankind's sins, and equally important, that they live a gracious, thankful, and giving life.
 

Mr.Stepanov

Guest
What is considered a "good Christian"

Good Christians won't enter heaven. Only saved Christians/people will. No one is good but God alone. You're a Christian, just not a good one, for we are all "in the hands of an angry God." Even though we're not good and free of sin, we are called to do the will of the Father and trust his word and promise of salvation.

...and this concludes my first post.
 
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NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
John 1 puts that to bed.

No, it doesn't. John 1 says Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, not God made flesh. Logos = Word, the thoughts and ideas expressed, are God's words. Jesus is the incarnation of God's plan. Just another example of how 180 degrees wrong are trinitarians. We live in a fallen world, so I suppose it's to be expected.

Trinitarianism defies logic. Christianity does not. It's time we rejoin the two, logic and Christianity, and show polytheism the door.

I've been told I'm going to hell for what I believe. On the contrary, belief in the trinity is NOT a matter of salvation. There are those who will tell you what to believe. I'm not saying anything like that, I'm telling anyone who will listen the doctrine of the trinity is man's doctrine, against which we are warned, look it up, and it is a lie.

If you believe the doctrine of the trinity, you also probably believe in the Easter bunny, and that rabbits lay eggs. The doctrine of the trinity came about in the 3rd century AD, although trinitarians will try to tell you otherwise, the word isn't even used in the bible, it's too important, and was established by the Romans as a compromise with pagans, from whom we get Sunday worship, the worship of the Sun god, Christ Mass at the winter solstice, and polytheism, this doctrine.

I adhere to christianity as it was practiced in the first century as recorded in the New Testament. I use the ESV, and previously used the NRSV, the most accurate translation of the bible we're ever going to have, even better than the KJV. Yes, it's important to know what God says, and even more important to practice it.

I know there are some sceptics on here, but don't fall prey to these evil doers who condemn anyone who doesn't believe as they do. The fact that they are so quick to judge should tell you something. The doctine of the trinity is probably the biggest lie, and done the most damage to God's people, than anything the devil has ever been allowed to perpetrate, which is saying something considering he also caused the Great Flood. The only thing greater, well two things, would be the deception of Eve, and the murder of Jesus the Christ. We may never know with absolute certainty, who is right, until that day when we will know even as we are known. However, we are also warned to beware of apostates, in all it's forms.

Until then, I'm content in the knowledge of the truth of God's Word, as given by God, to inspired men and women, the prophets and the apostles, of whom the latter remain with us. The truth shall set us free. Man's doctrine serves to enslave. We know which God is working where. II Cor 4:4.

One final point, if the leaders of the synagogue in Jesus' day were of their father the devil, there's nothing to suggest the church today is any different. Most clergy will tell you, if they're honest, mainstream denominational christianity today, above the congregational level, is all politics.

God be with us all.
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
There's way too much to respond to there, so I'll just keep it REALLY simple.

John 1 says Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, not God made flesh.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."


You have to work pretty hard to contradict a truth so plainly stated.
 

41magfan

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Some people will not only tolerate being deceived, they will embrace it and wear it like it was a CMOH.

The Bible gives pretty clear instruction about debating foolish doctrines, but I do pray that those that choose to believe a lie will abandon their rebellion before it's too late. Too much is at stake to get it wrong.
 
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drum3rguy

Eight Pointer
No, it doesn't. John 1 says Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, not God made flesh. Logos = Word, the thoughts and ideas expressed, are God's words. Jesus is the incarnation of God's plan. Just another example of how 180 degrees wrong are trinitarians. We live in a fallen world, so I suppose it's to be expected.

Trinitarianism defies logic. Christianity does not. It's time we rejoin the two, logic and Christianity, and show polytheism the door.

I've been told I'm going to hell for what I believe. On the contrary, belief in the trinity is NOT a matter of salvation. There are those who will tell you what to believe. I'm not saying anything like that, I'm telling anyone who will listen the doctrine of the trinity is man's doctrine, against which we are warned, look it up, and it is a lie.

If you believe the doctrine of the trinity, you also probably believe in the Easter bunny, and that rabbits lay eggs. The doctrine of the trinity came about in the 3rd century AD, although trinitarians will try to tell you otherwise, the word isn't even used in the bible, it's too important, and was established by the Romans as a compromise with pagans, from whom we get Sunday worship, the worship of the Sun god, Christ Mass at the winter solstice, and polytheism, this doctrine.

I adhere to christianity as it was practiced in the first century as recorded in the New Testament. I use the ESV, and previously used the NRSV, the most accurate translation of the bible we're ever going to have, even better than the KJV. Yes, it's important to know what God says, and even more important to practice it.

I know there are some sceptics on here, but don't fall prey to these evil doers who condemn anyone who doesn't believe as they do. The fact that they are so quick to judge should tell you something. The doctine of the trinity is probably the biggest lie, and done the most damage to God's people, than anything the devil has ever been allowed to perpetrate, which is saying something considering he also caused the Great Flood. The only thing greater, well two things, would be the deception of Eve, and the murder of Jesus the Christ. We may never know with absolute certainty, who is right, until that day when we will know even as we are known. However, we are also warned to beware of apostates, in all it's forms.

Until then, I'm content in the knowledge of the truth of God's Word, as given by God, to inspired men and women, the prophets and the apostles, of whom the latter remain with us. The truth shall set us free. Man's doctrine serves to enslave. We know which God is working where. II Cor 4:4.

One final point, if the leaders of the synagogue in Jesus' day were of their father the devil, there's nothing to suggest the church today is any different. Most clergy will tell you, if they're honest, mainstream denominational christianity today, above the congregational level, is all politics.

God be with us all.

Why am I jumping into this? Many above have nailed it, but I just have this question.

So, you are telling us that the VAST MAJORITY of theologians, church fathers, etc throughout the last several hundred years are all WRONG when it comes to believing the fact that Jesus was God?

Anything less and his substitutionary sacrifice would be useless. If he were not God, then it would have done nothing.

Also, can you point us to some sites that explain the difference other than just saying he was the Christ, but not God? The only sites I can find in just a quick search are Muslim or Jewish...

All in love, brother. You believe in Jesus, then awesome! But, let's just be clear about exactly who he is.
 

drum3rguy

Eight Pointer
Sure, there are several examples, but a few that come to mind are the LDS version of the KJV which is also used at times by the JW..it's called the "authorized" version of the KJV, The many different versions of the Catholic Bible which denounce the KJV...and the many modern translations that either leave out or mistranslate scripture altogether.
The KJV is the only version that I am aware of that has been "tried" by multiple groups of scholars in blind testing against the original scripts of the times and found to be the most accurate translation that has withstood the tests of time.

Going back through this thread and I came across this reply. Do you have a source for these trials of scholars in blind testing that we could read?
 

Eric Revo

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Going back through this thread and I came across this reply. Do you have a source for these trials of scholars in blind testing that we could read?

This was referencing the method which was used to translate the KJV. Six separate groups of scholars and scribes of various skills in each group were tasked with translating and recording each particular piece, then each of the other groups did the same until each group had gone over the same piece individually six times . Then each piece was compared to the same piece six times and recorded as a single portion of the scripture.
No one group knew what the other had translated and recorded, and a separate group compiled each translation into the KJV.
This is the only version in which this method was used to translate and record the written documents that the current version of the Bible is based upon.
 

NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
Some people will not only tolerate being deceived, they will embrace it and wear it like it was a CMOH.

The Bible gives pretty clear instruction about debating foolish doctrines, but I do pray that those that choose to believe a lie will abandon their rebellion before it's too late. Too much is at stake to get it wrong.

And some people are non-committal, for obvious reasons.
 

NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
There's way too much to respond to there, so I'll just keep it REALLY simple.



John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."


You have to work pretty hard to contradict a truth so plainly stated.

God is love, that's pretty plain, too. Jesus Christ embodies everything the father is, but he is not him. Only a fool, or an idiot, would make the leap of logic that he is, especially considering all of the scripture contradicting it. Someone else pointed out, and I'll mention it here, since the 3rd century, the church has taught Jesus is God. But since the 3rd century, the church has been compromised by paganism. As a rational being, you're going to continue to believe what the church teaches, instead of what the word of god says. I beg to differ.

I don't have to work hard at all to point out the fallacy of your argument, quite the contrary. Pentecostals in particular, have to twist the word of god rather significantly to fit their views on holy spirit, so, obviously, it can be done. Doesn't make them, or you, right.

Is that plain enough for you? I didn't think so, but I'm not responding here for your benefit, but for the benefit of anyone reading this who is confused, as they should be, by the teachings of the church. Not only do we live in a fallen world, but since the 3rd century AD, the church is a fallen church, all of their protestations notwithstanding.

Martin Luther did not believe the doctrine of the trinity, after all, it isn't in the bible, however, as an old man, tired and near death, compromised on this point so as not to lose the reformation altogether. There you have it. I'm neither old nor near death, and I refuse to compromise, neither should any god fearing jesus loving christian man or woman.
 

NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
Why am I jumping into this? Many above have nailed it, but I just have this question.

So, you are telling us that the VAST MAJORITY of theologians, church fathers, etc throughout the last several hundred years are all WRONG when it comes to believing the fact that Jesus was God?

Anything less and his substitutionary sacrifice would be useless. If he were not God, then it would have done nothing.

Also, can you point us to some sites that explain the difference other than just saying he was the Christ, but not God? The only sites I can find in just a quick search are Muslim or Jewish...

All in love, brother. You believe in Jesus, then awesome! But, let's just be clear about exactly who he is.

The world, for thousands of years, thought the world was flat. Are you saying they are all WRONG? If a herd of buffalo was racing toward a cliff and certain death, would you join them?

I believe you are sincere, but when someone starts using words that aren't in the bible, I get confused, and your use of substitutionary, before making a false assertion, is confusing. I refute the basis upon which your assertion, and therefore reject your assertion.

It's interesting that Islam has taken up this issue, because it is the one thing where they have christians dead to right. Christianity is the laughing stock of the Abrahamic world, because everyone else knows Jesus is not God. It makes Jesus' sacrifice no less perfect.

But, before Islamophobia, and Sharknado, the first one, not the second, there was a man named Victor Paul Weirwille from New Knoxville, OH who founded The Way International in the late 50's. It's interested how many of his teachings have been incorporated into mainstream christianity since then. I'll go a step further, and state the christian church today, is nothing less than warmed over paganism. You worship God on a cross, I worship God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them. If you have a child, that child is not you. Why would God establish these laws, and then do something as convoluted as making a child, and then becoming that child, or somehow making that child part of who he is. Jesus Christ always did the will of the father, that is the perfect sacrifice, not a perfect all present, all knowing being sacrificing himself. God is not man, a fact in which I hope we all can agree. By one man sin came into the world, and by one man, all are saved. Notice the use of the word "man".

There are a substantial number of people who don't believe the doctrine of the trinity, while I wouldn't say the vast majority don't believe it, I will go so far as to say probably 80 percent fall into one of three categories, don't believe it, don't understand it, don't care. I only point that out not to prove anything, but to point out that only 20 percent of christians actually believe what you're asserting. The doctrine of the trinity falls short in so many respects, but serves the devils purpose so well, that I'm not sure where we go from here, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.

God be with us all.
 
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NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
This was referencing the method which was used to translate the KJV. Six separate groups of scholars and scribes of various skills in each group were tasked with translating and recording each particular piece, then each of the other groups did the same until each group had gone over the same piece individually six times . Then each piece was compared to the same piece six times and recorded as a single portion of the scripture.
No one group knew what the other had translated and recorded, and a separate group compiled each translation into the KJV.
This is the only version in which this method was used to translate and record the written documents that the current version of the Bible is based upon.

He asked for a source. You may be referring to the fact, King James, a homosexual, not that it matters, threatened the scribes with death if they mistranslated any part of the scripture, which I believe was the Septuagint greek translation of the bible, translated from the Latin Vulgate into Greek, but I could be wrong. The NRSV brings forward the KJV into modern english, revised by a group of theologians, including one from Duke School of Divinity. I prefer the ESV, because it corrects some of the issues with the NRSV regarding gender, etc. that some people didn't like.

We have the most accurate translations of the bible today that we'll ever have, and it's not the KJV, barring some new discovery of ancient texts. As important as that is, it's even more important to be doers of the word, and not hearers only. It isn't just enough to know the word of god, but to practice it, as well.

The printing press brought about the Protestant Reformation by putting the word of god into every man's hand. It remains to be seen what will be the effect of the Internet, making information available worldwide at the click of a button.

God be with us all.
 

Doc

Twelve Pointer
He asked for a source. You may be referring to the fact, King James, a homosexual, not that it matters, threatened the scribes with death if they mistranslated any part of the scripture, which I believe was the Septuagint greek translation of the bible, translated from the Latin Vulgate into Greek, but I could be wrong. The NRSV brings forward the KJV into modern english, revised by a group of theologians, including one from Duke School of Divinity. I prefer the ESV, because it corrects some of the issues with the NRSV regarding gender, etc. that some people didn't like.

We have the most accurate translations of the bible today that we'll ever have, and it's not the KJV, barring some new discovery of ancient texts. As important as that is, it's even more important to be doers of the word, and not hearers only. It isn't just enough to know the word of god, but to practice it, as well.

The printing press brought about the Protestant Reformation by putting the word of god into every man's hand. It remains to be seen what will be the effect of the Internet, making information available worldwide at the click of a button.

God be with us all.

What text version of The Bible do you think is the most accurate translation for someone looking to dive in and start reading?
 

41magfan

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
When I hear some of these ludicrous interpretations of what the Bible says, I'm reminded of something Patrick Moynihan once said, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." That's a pretty profound statement to originate from a politician, by the way.

If someone chooses to "believe" Jesus is not God, that is certainly their prerogative, but the evidence for the Triune nature of God is not debatable .... at least not intelligently.
 
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