Does anyone here shoot SMOKE LESS muzzleloaders?

Richard De

Guest
It seems a shame more people are not getting into smoke less muzzle loading? Accuracy, increased velocity, no immediate cleaning, and yes, they are safe. Once you have seen and shot one, you will become a believer. The custom guns and custom hand make cup and core bullets will knock your socks off.
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
I shoot them also.
Started last year that I made up my first gun.

That said there is nothing like shooting Goex in a gun for fun.

But to the OP...

Sounds like a loaded statement.
Are you building them, selling them, or what?
How do you know who us shooting what and how many smokless are out there being used?

You stated nothing about what you shoot and the builds.
 
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TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
I dont really know much about em other than the ones ive seen have been really expencive.


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brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I dont really know much about em other than the ones ive seen have been really expencive.


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An Encore or Apex conversion can be had used for about $600 ish or built new for about $800. More custom options built on Rem 700 actions start in the $1600 range to build.
 

1SHOT1KILL

Old Mossy Horns
Yeah, I know just a "little" bit about smokeless muzzleloading. What do you want or need to know about it?
 

1SHOT1KILL

Old Mossy Horns
TravisLH,
I have done the centerfire conversions since about late 1990, when my late father and I did our very centerfire rifle to smokeless muzzleloader conversions. Since that time, I have made smokeless muzzleloaders off of Winchester 94's, Ruger #1's, Remington #2 Rolling Blocks, Martini-Enfields, '98 Mausers, Winchester 670's, Mossberg 800's, Sako 691's, Remington 788, Remington 700's, Ruger 77's, Springfield '03A3, Mark X Mini-Mausers, Savage 10's, H&R Handi-Rifles, and a couple makes of small ring Mausers as well. There might be a few makes and models that I have forgotten about converting over the years. In the late '90's we developed a couple prototypes for Savage Arms, that would become known as the Savage 10ML and 10ML-II smokeless muzzleloaders.
 
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TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
What did you use for the reciever Gadget, a HR handi rifle? What kinda accuracy are you getting out of it?
I never considered since the few i saw for sale were all over $1k


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brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Gadgets is on an encore frame and I have them built on an encore and cva Apex frame. All of mine will shoot MOA out to 300 yards if you do your part.

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Downeast

Twelve Pointer
I bought one of the these several years ago and I ain't going back! Simply love it!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sav10ML-II.htm

Oh, they stopped making them, by the way. Something about a lawsuit, BATF, stupid people doing stupid things, like not knowing that powder weight is not the same as powder volume??
 
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Boojum

Ten Pointer
No offense, but I don't really see the point. I shoot muzzleloaders because I enjoy the things that make a muzzleloader a muzzleloader. I shoot flintlocks and percussion guns. If I want something super-accurate at long range and no cleaning and no challenge to hunt with, I have a .300 mag, several ARs, a 30-06, a .30-30, etc, etc. At some point, it's not a muzzleloader any more, it's just another rifle that has re-invented the wheel and defeats the purpose of having a muzzleloader to begin with. I'm sure they are a good-shooting rifle, I just don't want one.
 
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1SHOT1KILL

Old Mossy Horns
No offense, but I don't really see the point. I shoot muzzleloaders because I enjoy the things that make a muzzleloader a muzzleloader. I shoot flintlocks and percussion guns. If I want something super-accurate at long range and no cleaning and no challenge to hunt with, I have a .300 mag, several ARs, a 30-06, a .30-30, etc, etc. At some point, it's not a muzzleloader any more, it's just another rifle that has re-invented the wheel and defeats the purpose of having a muzzleloader to begin with. I'm sure they are a good-shooting rifle, I just don't want one.

That is the reason they still make flintlocks and percussion muzzleloaders today, as well as smokeless. If you don't want to shoot a smokeless muzzleloader then don't. Just that plain and simple. Some of us do enjoy shooting smokeless muzzleloaders. If you think that smokeless muzzleloaders are just a re-invention of the wheel and not challenging, then it just proves that you truly are ignorant about smokeless muzzleloading. I doubt that you have ever shot one, because if you think a smokeless muzzleloader is equivalent to a 300 Win Mag or 30-06 you are sadly mistaken. Having cut my muzzleloading shooting and hunting teeth with rocklocks and percussion muzzleloaders (starting back in the mid-'70's) and up to the time I developed and patented the modern smokeless muzzleloaders of today, I can tell you for a fact that it takes as much of not more meticulous attention to detail and extremely tight tolerances to build a smokeless muzzleloader that will shoot MOA at 200-300yds than a flintlock or percussion that will shoot MOA at 50-100yds. It will also take much more meticulous load development as well to produce that MOA load out of a smokeless muzzleloader. No offense, but to make a broad statement like there is nothing challenging about smokeless muzzleloaders is just pure ignorance.
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
^^^^^^

Im with him.....

Live and learn...

Some of us like to do and try things that are different....
something easy about going to the store and buy a front stuffer, latest powder and coolest bullets...
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
No offense, but I don't really see the point. I shoot muzzleloaders because I enjoy the things that make a muzzleloader a muzzleloader. I shoot flintlocks and percussion guns..

BTW what guns you shooting? What powder and bullets?
 

PPosey

Twelve Pointer
Have an Encore 45-70 conversion,,, had a savage Ml2 with a .45 pacnor, the conversions are the best woods hunting ML's out there for me. Low power loads are easy to shoot and easy on the shoulder,,, just like low power loads with smoky powder... But,,, less mess.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
I just did a Savage MLII rebuild on a used one I got. I replaced the original plug with the bushing plug, and had it cerrakoted and I pillar bedded into a Boyds prairie hunter stock. Just got it sighted in last week and will do more load work this week. got about 900 or so in this gun. Easiest way to go smokeless is to find a New England Handi rifle or H&R in 45-70 and have it converted. can be converted for about $300 plus the cost of the rifle.
As to a smokeless ML being like a modern rifle, obviously you have never messed with one. It isn't point and shoot like you think it is. There are lots and lots of things one has to do to get these guns to shoot good.
 

HarryChambers

Guest
I dont know about about smokeless muzzleloading but need to know about it.
 

fats

Four Pointer
An off the shelf H&R 45/70 with a savage breech plug and hornady sst's will shoot like a house on fire. There will be a little recoil. But you'll smile when your not cleaning all that corrosive powder residue.
 
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