Trim tabs on a smaller boat?

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
Trying to set up my 1860DT Lowe boat.
It has a 60 command thrust big tiller.

Not sure what to think have had a heck of a time setting it up.
Props to motor height to porpoises like a bitch.

As of now I can not run more than 1/2 before it starts jumping around.
Tried a 4 blade 11 p 13.75 dia to 3 blade 13p x 14" dia up to 15p
11 turns up to much, 15 will not run more than 4000 to 4500 and can not wind it out yet do to bouncing to see a max RPM.

Dont tell me move weight.
Tried everything. Heavy TM up front, wife, 15gal live well full.
last time I moved 2 batteries up along with 6 gal tank gas can and plus anything else along with 15 gal LW full.

Really think they have a design flaw in the boat.

Took everything out and off other than one battery to start and 4 gal fuel.
Did not do much.

Lifted the motor more and have a 3" set back plate so I will try that this week end.
May even need to go up one more hole after I try this.
Have yet to be able to trim the motor up, it must stay tucked or it will beat your brains out.

There is no hook built in the boat, not edge wedge on the bottom of the transom and also no tabs on the back.

Was thinking about adding some small bennett tabs or make a fixed tab or even a plate on the back to add a lip to the bottom of the transom.

Lowe Boats has been of 0 help. Will never buy another boat from them.
Will not return calls or email, and if you get someone on the phone they speed pass you to someone else that will not answer.

Plan to try lifting the motor one more time and maybe add some type of tab.
If that dont work then I will pull my gear and motor and dump it off then have a custom boat built or find one I can try first with the same setup 60 tiller.

This boat I bet would be fine with a 30 or 40 hp to run around.

It planes fast, just cant put HP to it. It is also rated for a 75hp and that is 150 lb to 190 lb more weight.
That is less then the gas and batteries I have.

And no I have no plans to add a plastic fin to the motor. Tried them and drilled hols in motors only to have them not work good and drag like a SOB.

Thoughts?



.
 

hnbarnes

Six Pointer
Where is the cavitation plate on the motor in relation to the bottom of the boat? It should be about an inch below the bottom with the motor level. And how fast are you running before it porpoises? That boat should fly with a 60

Bolt on hydrofoils can tremendously help with porpoising at wot and trimmed out; A true hydrofoil or "whale tail", not the bolt on fins from Walmart
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
Everything I was reading and remember from the past the cav plate depends on the type of boat.

it was barried and still is some.
that has me thinking it needs another hole.
As of now it is level or just under.

Also have pods on the boat and not much room for a big tail to mount on the Cav plate.
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
Well never mind then, that is what I was going to suggest. I use one with my Lowe 1648 and works great, helps a lot.

Yep my old 1648mv with 30hp worked great with it but I lost a lot of speed and response.

The plus is this has the T&T
 

skimmer

Six Pointer
Pour some resin in a 6" paint tray and let it harden. Start thick and bond them to the bottom of your pods. You can test it and sand them down as needed. You can line the tray with duct tape so the resin will pull out easy
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
That was also one plan.
they placed the pods higher then a lot of people think they should be.

There is more than 1" from the bottom.
Was thinking I could plate them or add to the bottom some but it would take a bunch to build them up
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I had to make a set for mine, as I remember I posted a pic of them. That is a piss poor design of that boat. It doesn't take much mine were 3" wide by 12' long. 1 degree turned down was all it took to stop that porpoising. I made mine adjustable, and tried turning them down more and the onset and it just slowed the boat down. They really were a simple job to make.

Lowe could have done way better, and I would trade the boat before I would put a whale tale on it which BTW won't fix it. I saw a guy recently at the river with the exact same boat with a 75 Merc. on it and it was bouncing his guts out and he had just installed one on it. I told him how to fix it.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Yes sir i remember that.
Not sure with the pods i can do anything like that.
Trying to make a plan being i need to wait for Lowe to return email or calls.

http://www.southernfishingboats.com...-Jon-Roughneck-16DT-Stapleton-Alabama-2287338

not sure if the link works but i see a lot of lowe boats with factory welded tabs.
why mine does not have it is beyond me.
Mine had them but they were useless, actually above the bottom of the hull and were only 1" wide. If you have pods, you probably will need to trim down a little more because the only pods I have seen (factory) actually cant up from the normal bottom line of the actual boat. But I may be wrong about that. That would be the good thing about them being adjustable. I would have thought the pods would stop that crap.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
They put the pods too high
Maybe 1.5" up so they dont ride in the water running.
I am actually thinking about putting a set on my boat I have now. it is considerably smaller.

I can fab and install them myself but I have been on several sites that sell/install them and all of them say set them 1/2" above the line of the bottom of the boat at the back of the pod. I can fully understand the logic on that. But I can't on setting them any higher.
 

CountryRN

Twelve Pointer
They put the pods too high
Maybe 1.5" up so they dont ride in the water running.

My understanding of pods when doing a ton of research on them when considering putting some on my boat is this... The pods are only there to provide floatation when sitting stll in the water. They can also be helpful in getting the boat on step quicker since the extra flotation keeps the boat from sitting so deep in the transom. The pods are supposed to be ideally mounted 1 to 1.5 inches above the bottom of the transom so they do not touch the water when up and running; preventing them from adding extra drag and robbing you of performance. If yours are at the level you say they are, it sounds like they were mounted properly.
I am not sure why your rig is not running right. My 1860 center console runs very well with a yamaha F70. Without proper weight distribution mine will jump around also. But with a cooler of ice mounted on the bow and on glassy water, i can trim the motor up until the prop chews air at 36 to 38mph.
I known you said you have moved weight around already, so this makes me wonder if there isnt a flaw in the hull, like a wave in the bottom making the water flow funky. Getting Lowe to admit it will be next to impossible.
Set your cave plate at the level of the transom or just above. Move ALL your moveable weight to the front, fuel, tank and batteries. Try a cooler or a person sitting on the front and then adjust your trim slowly a little at the time once you are up and running until you find the sweet spot. Good luck.
 

workennels

Eight Pointer
Not sure about tabs on pods...but with my 18' tunnel and 90hp on it I have to run a fin on the motor and I also have tabs on the boat. Without the fin it porpoises bad and I can correct it with the tabs but it slows the boat down considerably. But you said you won't use a fin, I know you can read the experts that say if everything is right you should never need a fin, but the mutt of a boat I have it makes a huge difference
 
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Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
Not sure about tabs on pods...but with my 18' tunnel and 90hp on it I have to run a fin on the motor and I also have tabs on the boat. Without the fin it porpoises bad and I can correct it with the tabs but it slows the boat down considerably. But you said you won't use a fin, I know you can read the experts that say if everything is right you should never need a fin, but the mutt of a boat I have it makes a huge difference

Can inget a picture of your tabs?
they factory or aftermarket? Welded on?
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
From doing a lot of reading some say the. Pods are too high and some say the pods are 100% spot on.

From talking to people that build boats, race boats, and spent a lifetime working or selling them they are wrong.

It was pointed out that a pod set correct will make full contact running and work like a trim tab.
If you look at small race boats they have larg built in pods and larger boats use a tab up to 36" or more long that the boat rides on.

They are all about speed

that said
I moved 2 batteries up front and tank of fuel, had the wife up there with a big trolling motor and also the 15 g livewell full it may have got worse.

with there would be no way to take the dogs and just go for an afternoon ride.
 
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Bailey Boat

Twelve Pointer
Gadget, as you know I have almost the same set up and in the beginning I had proposing issues also. My solution was to consult with my mechanic about the setup. He recommended raising the motor so we brought it to the 4th hole from the top. (I only have one hole below the bolt left.) We ran it and it was much better but still wanted to bounce around. He suggested we raise it to the next level, we did and that has solved 99% of the issues.
Looking at the vent plate compared to the bottom of the hull it is almost 2" above. Sounds crazy but it still has a really strong pee stream with no ventilation. My speed went up almost 8 MPH.
The only thing left for me to do is play with the prop. I started with a 17p and a buried motor. Went to a raised motor and a 15 pitch which is where I am now. Other things had gotten in the way so I haven't done anything else.
My next move is to try a bunch of props (luckily I have a prop shop that will let me demo several) Once I find the right prop it should be over.
 

Bailey Boat

Twelve Pointer
Gadget, as you know I have almost the same set up and in the beginning I had proposing issues also. My solution was to consult with my mechanic about the setup. He recommended raising the motor so we brought it to the 4th hole from the top. (I only have one hole below the bolt left.) We ran it and it was much better but still wanted to bounce around. He suggested we raise it to the next level, we did and that has solved 99% of the issues.
Looking at the vent plate compared to the bottom of the hull it is almost 2" above. Sounds crazy but it still has a really strong pee stream with no ventilation. My speed went up almost 8 MPH.
The only thing left for me to do is play with the prop. I started with a 17p and a buried motor. Went to a raised motor and a 15 pitch which is where I am now. Other things had gotten in the way so I haven't done anything else.
My next move is to try a bunch of props (luckily I have a prop shop that will let me demo several) Once I find the right prop it should be over.
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
Yep
the place I got it said the motor was at the correct height.
Talked to others that know and my gut say move it up.
I got it up a few and will see today how it goes and move it up more ton8ght and also see what it needs more.
 
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Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
10-4
the tech guys at Bennett offered to try to help.
They said lift the motor and measure a few thinks to see what it does and then see if I can fit there small trim tabs on each side 8" outside the CL of the boat.

So as stated will try everything I can adjust before adding anything.
 

Mr.Gadget

Old Mossy Horns
I ran the boat today.
Started beating your brains out at 4000 rpms
Was able to hit short bursts of an attempt on full open buy it would turn up to 6000 fast and could not ride it or hold it.
Feel sure the 13p was too low after raising the motor.
The plate was still not on top had a good bit of spray and had good wash over the plate.
Got home after lunch and lifted the motor one more hole, only one more left after this.
Remember i have a plate that also lifts it one or more holes also.

Going to the lake with a 15 p and 17p and give it another shot tomorrow.
Remember the motor is all the way tucked.
If i trim up it will porpoise hard and fast even at low rpm.
My thought is that if i can run it 5400 to 5600 i should be fine because at some point i will be able to trim it up and pick up 400 to 500 rpm.
 

Markfromflorida

Eight Pointer
Bobs machine shop in Ruskin Florida; makes jack plates and also a nice metal plate that mounts on the factory cav plate. I've installed dozens back when I was in the biz, and some customers had great results, some not so much. You can do a web search for bobs machine shop to see their website.
 

darenative

Twelve Pointer
I'd put a set of Bobs transom wedges on it to get more negative tuck on engine trim. It's a bandaid fix for your problem...but should make it usable without breaking the bank.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I'd put a set of Bobs transom wedges on it to get more negative tuck on engine trim. It's a bandaid fix for your problem...but should make it usable without breaking the bank.
Didn't work, I tried that. I had the exact same hull he did.
 

nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
If that's the case...he has 2 options, tabs of some sort, or pound some hook into the hull with a sledge.
Yep, that was why I went with the tabs. I also went through the raising the motor deal, on the phone to all the engineers at Lowe etc. When you have the motor at the tip top and have the very best prop setup on it you can get you can BARELY get by to you bust a wake wrong then you will get all your teeth flattened out.

Put a set of tabs on it and be done with it and you are good to go and it will perform great. Been there done that got the T-shirt. And mine had this tank in the front that I made, along with two 31 series batteries in a compartment in front of it. I wonder what the poor souls that have two batteries and a 16 gallon tank setting in the back of the boat like they come rigged do?
 
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