WNC Hunters: Rivers Bottoms Funnel Deer?

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Right, that there feeding on in the dead of night, when Elmer Fud is long gone, hence why I say directly hunting over the plot on the Green River GL as opposed to high on a ridge in the NF, has virtually no extra benefits.

Totally agree.

I was more referencing the higher deer numbers at GR or similar game lands than anything else.

More deer= more chances to use a tag.
 
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alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
Mostly for the fact food plots give deer year around nutrition and help fawns grow.

Game lands managed by the state with food plots seem to have higher deer numbers than national forest land.

There is little to no doubt about the nutritional benefits for deer, it's the number of hunters it attracts and the how deer then pattern these hunters and the subsequent quality of the deer hunting, that we're talking about. As for GL's and deer numbers, if you're looking strictly at per capita, you're probably correct however there are pockets within some ares of the NF that I would put against any GL, especially any GL here in the mountains. You can't really compare the 2 when one is a few thousand acres and the other is a few hundred thousand acres. I also wonder what the average age of deer harvested on Green River are compared to say the Pisgah NF. I'm not going to pretend to be a biologist but my gut would almost say to give the edge to the NF in that regard. I've stomped around both quite a bit, heck I live backing up to the Pisgah NF. I'd give the nod to those pockets within Pisgah NF and day over GR.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
GR isn't managed for older aged deer. Neither is Pisgah.

I'd wager most hunters are interested in just killing a deer or some deer for the freezer.

Hence the higher pressure at GR compared to Pisgah.

All these reports of "low" deer numbers at Pisgah I think scares a lot of hunters away.
 
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alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
GR isn't managed for older aged deer. Neither is Pisgah.

I'd wager most hunters are interested in just killing a deer or some deer for the freezer.

Hence the higher pressure at GR compared to Pisgah.

All these reports of "low" deer numbers at Pisgah I think scares a lot of hunters away.

We're not talking about every hunter, we're talking about a guy who detailed his season of hunting bucks in the mountains, looking for rubs, scrapes, etc, and the advice you gave him. Also, I never said either were managed for age, just that the NF allows deer to age more frequently. The higher pressure at GL's is due to many factors, some of which are the management, others of which are the ease of access. I know guys who have hunted GR for years with hardly anything to show for it, and I know guys who hunt nearly every season in Pisgah and kill good bucks, almost with ease. The NF is not for the faint of heart. The areas where there is the least amount of pressure areas are the areas that are the most remote and least accessible. You have to want to be there and if you can, will stack up to anything that GR has if not more.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I'm with you.

I know some hard to get to spots on the nf where I see sign. But I like to hunt old bucks and don't care for the "brown and down" stuff.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
I'm with you.

I know some hard to get to spots on the nf where I see sign. But I like to hunt old bucks and don't care for the "brown and down" stuff.

Which is exactly what we're giving him advice on. This whole debate is about a guy who asked for tips about how to hunt mountains and you told him to go sit on a gameland plot in Polk County.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Which is in the mountains and has more deer.

Not everybody is a wilderness trophy buck hunter.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
Which is in the mountains and has more deer.

Not everybody is a wilderness trophy buck hunter.

Ok, master hunter. Sure, a guy depicting his scenario was looking for you to tell him to go sit on a plot with 15 other guys, down the mountain in Polk County. Get real.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
For the record state managed game lands generally have more deer than the national forest.

For all I know he could be hunting state land.

He said he's seeing deer but says numbers are low.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I have no problem if someone wants to hunt where deer numbers are low. Thats their business.

What I do have problem with is people saying there is some nice old bucks on the national forest.

Not everybody is a "trophy" hunter.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
For the record state managed game lands generally have more deer than the national forest.

For all I know he could be hunting state land.

He said he's seeing deer but says numbers are low.

So you think that by going to Green River, suddenly he's going to see more deer? Most of the people who actually hunt Green River will tell you that's not the case at all. He said he's not seeing lots of deer but he's seeing lots of sign. That's indicative of nighttime movement. He just simply needs to change how he's hunting where he's already at, not go sit on the most pressured gameland in the region.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
I have no problem if someone wants to hunt where deer numbers are low. Thats their business.

What I do have problem with is people saying there is some nice old bucks on the national forest.

Not everybody is a "trophy" hunter.

You're just rambling now, not even making sense.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
So you think that by going to Green River, suddenly he's going to see more deer? Most of the people who actually hunt Green River will tell you that's not the case at all. He said he's not seeing lots of deer but he's seeing lots of sign. That's indicative of nighttime movement. He just simply needs to change how he's hunting where he's already at, not go sit on the most pressured gameland in the region.

There is pressure on every game land in WNC, some more than others.

I got the idea he wants to hunt where there are more deer. I might be wrong.

To some people high deer densities matter.
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
There is pressure on every game land in WNC, some more than others.

I got the idea he wants to hunt where there are more deer. I might be wrong.

To some people high deer densities matter.

Only you could get, 'I want to hunt highly pressured plots on gamelands because they supposedly have more deer', out of 'Going with the strategy of hunting funnels, river gorges seem like an obvious place to hunt. Your thoughts?'
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Nope the food plot discussion came from the mention of mast.

Not from the op.

But there are game lands with more deer than others.

If the op is fine with hunting his river bottoms and funnels and seeing only a few deer, cool.

Their choice.
 
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TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
Ok, master hunter. Sure, a guy depicting his scenario was looking for you to tell him to go sit on a plot with 15 other guys, down the mountain in Polk County. Get real.

Your trying to argue with CRC using logic.... You know better lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PewPewPew

Button Buck
Thanks for all the responses and advice. Let me follow up on a few things.

-The majority of the draws I've scouted (some of which lead to the river bottom) have an old logging road, homestead trail, or flattened out game trail on one side following the draw. Is this not in itself a bench? Not like a bench in the way of a finger, but still a downward level path?

-During my scouting, I've found that if I started walking from a ridge, from the bottom of a finger to the top, I'd find deer trails paralleling each other every 20 yards. There are trails everywhere, but none of them looked anymore used than any of the others. They are all fairly faint, although obviously flattened out over a long period of time. Even when I hit a 10' wide old logging trail, the trail does not seem that much more heavily used. I'm not discounting hunting benches, I just can't distinguish which one to hunt.

-There are Rhododendron patches where I hunt, but they are usually no larger than an acre. Is that a bedding area even worth hunting over? The patches I have scouted, I've found little to no sign.

-No, I did not kill anything at my draw/river flat blind. I only got 4 or 5 solid hunts at this location, so I was not too discouraged that I didn't get a buck. As far trail cam results, I'd say that 30% of the bucks captured were in shooting light, and 70% where in complete darkness, which I figured was pretty standard.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Take a day when it has snowed 1-4 inches and the deer will show you with their tracks which trails and benches they use.
 

tra_cline

Ten Pointer
Contributor
CRC I may have missed it in my looking on here, Could you post some of your game land deer from all your hunting experiences, biological/habitat, and general information you offer, Im guessing you have knocked down some good ones! I would really enjoy seeing them! Best of luck in the 2017 season!
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
As I have said before I have not killed one of NC game lands.

I have had a couple chances to drop small bucks.

But no mature ones.

Lots more people like alt1001 know more about getting big national forest deer than me.

I just wish there was more that could be done to improve the habitat on the national forest lands.
 

bowhuntingrook

Old Mossy Horns
Last I read about hunting this type of terrain was to hunt trails up higher on the hill for bucks.
 
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alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
Thanks for all the responses and advice. Let me follow up on a few things.

-The majority of the draws I've scouted (some of which lead to the river bottom) have an old logging road, homestead trail, or flattened out game trail on one side following the draw. Is this not in itself a bench? Not like a bench in the way of a finger, but still a downward level path?

A bench is just essentially a flat part on the mountain side, many of which are just overgrown logging roads. I guess in theory those that run up and down draws could be considered benches but I'm not a big fan of those that traverse up and down draws but rather those that run parallel along the mountainside.

-During my scouting, I've found that if I started walking from a ridge, from the bottom of a finger to the top, I'd find deer trails paralleling each other every 20 yards. There are trails everywhere, but none of them looked anymore used than any of the others. They are all fairly faint, although obviously flattened out over a long period of time. Even when I hit a 10' wide old logging trail, the trail does not seem that much more heavily used. I'm not discounting hunting benches, I just can't distinguish which one to hunt.

That depends. On most trails I follow, one is usually more prominent than others. Yes, you will often see a few other faint trails running perpendicular to the main trails, that is usually a good indication of a buck trail. In my experience when walking up a ridge, a heavily used trail going north to south is usually crossed via a bench, thicket or saddle going parallel to the ridge side hence why many hunters hunt on the upper 1/3 of ridges and along benches, etc.

-There are Rhododendron patches where I hunt, but they are usually no larger than an acre. Is that a bedding area even worth hunting over? The patches I have scouted, I've found little to no sign.

Without knowing your location, this is a hard one to answer but I'll give you the most generic answer. The deer are obviously going in and out of this area, back and forth from where they are bedding. You need to find that location, which will most likely be in the denser areas above the river bottom. More times than not around here, those dense areas are the Rhodo thickets. Bucks love to bed where they can see in front of them and smell what's coming behind them. That is usually an area such as the end of a ridge, another reason most hunters around here hunt high rather than low.

-No, I did not kill anything at my draw/river flat blind. I only got 4 or 5 solid hunts at this location, so I was not too discouraged that I didn't get a buck. As far trail cam results, I'd say that 30% of the bucks captured were in shooting light, and 70% where in complete darkness, which I figured was pretty standard.

That is pretty standard for what sounded like the area you were hunting. Most of that sign is made at night. On one of the properties I scouted this year to hunt next year, I found a bunch of sign out in the hardwood and set up a camera. I got nothing but nighttime photos. I followed their trails until I came upon an area with a lot of group rubbing right before it entered a large strand of Laurel. I found a faint trail that went down into the Laurel however away from where they were bedding, and placed another camera. Sure enough, the next day I had 2 good bucks on camera, one at 10am and the other at 6p. This was October prior to the time change, so still daylight. 90% of the time, daytime movement is going to be where it is dense.
 
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alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
Today's article from the NC Sportsman:

Black Mountain hunter kills 15-point, 180-class trophy on Thanksgiving Day

“He came in the exact opposite of the way we set up,” said Kevin Bartlett. “He was in a rhododendron thicket about 10 yards behind our stand. I tried to get Addison on it, but she couldn't see it and couldn’t get turned around to get on it.”

http://www.carolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=13684
 
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oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Today's article from the NC Sportsman:

Black Mountain hunter kills 15-point, 180-class trophy on Thanksgiving Day

“He came in the exact opposite of the way we set up,” said Kevin Bartlett. “He was in a rhododendron thicket about 10 yards behind our stand. I tried to get Addison on it, but she couldn't see it and couldn’t get turned around to get on it.”

http://www.carolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=13684

i'de like to see a deer do three back flips. that would be awesome.
 

Doc

Twelve Pointer
Today's article from the NC Sportsman:

Black Mountain hunter kills 15-point, 180-class trophy on Thanksgiving Day

“He came in the exact opposite of the way we set up,” said Kevin Bartlett. “He was in a rhododendron thicket about 10 yards behind our stand. I tried to get Addison on it, but she couldn't see it and couldn’t get turned around to get on it.”

http://www.carolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=13684

I was wondering when article would come out on Bartlett's deer... what a specimen.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
Your trying to argue with CRC using logic.... You know better lol

I swear one day we are gonna find out that CRC is really a dang Pew Foundation researcher sitting in some office of K-Street in Washington, DC getting paid $10/post just to screw with hunters and collect info...

That's the only thing that makes sense.

Charlestonfishing.com rooted out a PEW guy a couple years ago doing the same thing.
 

TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
Thats a stud for sure, fact he got to share that with his daughter makes it even more special


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PewPewPew

Button Buck
Do any of you prefer to hunt a certain slope? I.e. South facing, north facing? I like the idea of hunting
Rhodedendron patches on the north facing slopes, but is that conducive to the prevailing wind? Most folks seem to prefer south facing?
 

alt1001

Old Mossy Horns
Do any of you prefer to hunt a certain slope? I.e. South facing, north facing? I like the idea of hunting
Rhodedendron patches on the north facing slopes, but is that conducive to the prevailing wind? Most folks seem to prefer south facing?

This can be a highly debated topic with some folks. Some people swear the south facing is the best for wintertime hunting because it is not as cold. Others prefer north facing as less sunlight means more concealment and more Laurel. I've even read that on high south facing slopes deer will walk from east to west in the morning, and west to east in the evening. Reason being? A deers eyes is designed for lowlight situations hence why they see better at night than us. At dawn and dusk on high ridges, walking into the sun hurts their eyes so they try to avoid it. Whether that is true or not, I have no clue but these are all things that will keep you up at night, debating with yourself.

I live on a south facing slope and I see plenty of deer here. I've scouted the north facing side and I've seen plenty of sign over there. Just find the place you feel most comfortable.
 
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PewPewPew

Button Buck
Thanks for the insight. I don't imagine deer are freezing during the hunting season from temperatures alone, but I do imagine they would want shelter from the wind regardless. From what I can dig up, prevailing wind in WNC is NW? Meaning deer might want to bed on S/SE slopes? I find that most south slopes in my area are open hardwood, with little cover. I'm just trying to narrow down my scouting a bit.
 
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