No Cobia in federal waters for 2017

These pinheads are at it again. Recreational possession of cobia caught in federal waters will be closed for the ENTIRE 2017 season.......
http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishery_bulletins/2017/004/index.html


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Total and complete BS as always from the NMFS (No More Fishing Season).....

So they say that the season was closed in 2016, but the harvest was still over the limit, even though they have ZERO factual recreational catch data.
And they said since it was still open in state waters, all the people just caught craploads of cobia within those waters instead of fishing in Fed water.

This non-sense has got to end at some point. Hell, last summer there were more "Boats For Sale" ads on Charlestonfishing.com, and FryingPanTower.com than there were Offshore reports...

The council conducts all of their business and directives based on faulty, cherry picked science, or in most cases, no data whatsoever.
Their "scientists" go to a ramp and see one guy with 2 cobia, or grouper, or (insert fish here), and count all the trucks in the lot. Their "science" says, "Ok, that guy caught his limit, so that means that all 85 other guys here caught their limit too"

The goofballs have the entire South Atlantic lumped into ONE zone from the Straights of Florida all the way to the NC/VA line. Seriously??? So South Florida (2 mile run to the Gulf Stream), and SC (40-50 mile run), should have the same seasons, catch limits, rules, etc?

They are trying to take just enough of our fishing rights away to get Rec guys to clamor and jump for joy when we get a little scrap back.
Their ultimate goal is more MPA's on any bottom structure, then reduction of trolling on the ledge either through reduced limits, closed seasons, or trolling-bans above the MPA's (like they tried to push for the Georgetown Hole in SC), and eventually VMS monitoring on every rec boat that has an HMS permit.

Also, I hate that NMFS/NOAA fisheries management falls under the umbrella of the Dept. of Commerce. You'd think that the Commerce guys would understand that Rec fishing is a boon to coastal economies in terms of $$ spent, but they turn a blind eye.
Wouldn't it make more sense for fisheries management within the EEZ to be administered by the Dept. of the Interior? Or, if they continue to spout this ACL crap, can't they leave commercial fishing regs within Commerce, and leave the millions of Rec fisherman alone?

Or they just need to give it all back to the states, since states have an actual clue about managing their own resources. Then we can stop paying for all these "Councils", convention centers, etc. that comes along with it...

Sorry for the long post, but this stuff gets me riled up.
And I'm mad cause I've only got ONE Cobia Filet left in the freezer...

Most of the time I agree that there is way too much over-regulation. However, in this case I think it needs to be done for at least a year if not 2 or more. The Cobia population has been declining over the past few years from my personal observations. I would be all for the states to close the fishery for EVERYONE, not just Recs, for a year. The way it was last year is just a joke. Recs can harvest on what?.... Mon,Wed, Sat while the charters and harvest anytime. Needs to be the same across the board.

I thought they were going in the right direction by breaking the areas and stocks up and drawing a line at Florida. They broke the cobia and hogfish stocks up that way. Looks like I'll just have to hit it hard in state waters assuming they keep it open. Those rules have not come out yet.

I'd like to see red snapper opened up

you and me both. My evidence is purely anecdotal but I see a lot of them diving

In the Gulf they got Congress to pass a special season allowing states to regulate red snapper out to 9 miles because the feds would not allow much of a season.

even that is a bad deal for most guys. They made the rules and implemented catch shares on it which pretty much restrict the fishery to commercial guys when compared to what the recreational guys are allowed.

It was more for the tourists and charter boats I'm sure.

Oh wait it gets even better....have you guys seen the proposed spawning management zones they are proposing for the east coast? There is a 5 square mile area that is going to be permanently closed to bottom fishing off of cape lookout.
http://safmc.net/amendments-under-development/snapper-grouper-amendment-36/


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As to the red snapper closure, the claim was that there were to many fish killed as incidental by catch by the recreational section in 2015 so the closure last year was punitive. Wanna be that the same logic is used this year to keep the season closed again? We have spots we can't even fish because the reds are so thick on them that is about all you can catch. Those technocrats there are a special kind of something


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What is wrong with protecting spawning aggregations of snapper and grouper?

that's one problem that there is no incidental catch provision. They are pretty much saying that since everyone caught and wasted all of the fish we are keeping it closed. Just make it one fish and be done with it so that if I do catch one that's not going to live I can at least eat it. I don't know much about the available data as to what actually makes the most sense. It is probably locked away for no one to see if it even exists.

The spawning area is a speck of area considering the good bottom out there. I know a lot of guys are about the precedent and the more restrictions camp but its a big ocean. There is a lot of pressure out there as it is so I don't really see this as a bad thing overall.

Wildlifer said:

that's one problem that there is no incidental catch provision. They are pretty much saying that since everyone caught and wasted all of the fish we are keeping it closed. Just make it one fish and be done with it so that if I do catch one that's not going to live I can at least eat it. I don't know much about the available data as to what actually makes the most sense. It is probably locked away for no one to see if it even exists.

The spawning area is a speck of area considering the good bottom out there. I know a lot of guys are about the precedent and the more restrictions camp but its a big ocean. There is a lot of pressure out there as it is so I don't really see this as a bad thing overall.

Click to expand...

While I would agree with the sentiment, the problem lies in that once this is in place then they will start expanding it and before you know it all of the area is shut down. It's the foot in the door so to speak.


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Wildlifer said:

that's one problem that there is no incidental catch provision. They are pretty much saying that since everyone caught and wasted all of the fish we are keeping it closed. Just make it one fish and be done with it so that if I do catch one that's not going to live I can at least eat it. I don't know much about the available data as to what actually makes the most sense. It is probably locked away for no one to see if it even exists.

Click to expand...

The biggest issue I have seen is the mortality rate they use is way to high versus what is actually seen. I believe they use a 60 or 70 percent mortality rate for incidental catch and that in and of its self is total crap. It has been shown by several studies to be actually in the 30 to 40 percent range. So the Feds think for every 100 caught, 60 die, where as the science says that it is actually 40%. So in reality only 40 of every hundred caught die, so the Feds overestimate the mortality.......
I have a degree in marine biology and a minor in fisheries management and it's a total farce from a science and management standpoint


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no doubt they are ultra conservative. I don't have first hand evidence but when it comes to cobia surveys i have heard they go to ramps, count the trailers, assume everyone is fishing and that they got their limit. I know personally I have never seen or been asked about my catch for a survey with the exception of striped bass. If they really want numbers make it more like hunting. If i shoot a deer I am required to report it, the same could be done with these contentious species. I do also realize that there is a sentiment that the agencies really could care less about the numbers and more about limiting fishing and harvest in general.

It's a hard spot to be pragmatic. I want to catch fish just as much as the next guy. I especially want to shoot a cobia and the best chance for that is typically offshore however I also want a flourishing resource that remains healthy. Closing the season cant hurt but only if its warranted since I also want to utilize the resource.

Wildlifer said:

that's one problem that there is no incidental catch provision. They are pretty much saying that since everyone caught and wasted all of the fish we are keeping it closed. Just make it one fish and be done with it so that if I do catch one that's not going to live I can at least eat it. I don't know much about the available data as to what actually makes the most sense. It is probably locked away for no one to see if it even exists.

The spawning area is a speck of area considering the good bottom out there. I know a lot of guys are about the precedent and the more restrictions camp but its a big ocean. There is a lot of pressure out there as it is so I don't really see this as a bad thing overall.

Click to expand...

But that's the thing, they don't have any available science for calling X area a good spawning site for Warsaws, Speckled Hind, etc. The just try to cut off fishing of structure on the bottom to see if more of those species show up in a couple years.
They said the proposed closure at the Georgetown hole was for spawning area of Hinds and Warsaw, but didn't have any data to make that assumption. They also want to try to enforce TROLLING bans over some MPA's. How in the world does that affect bottom dwellers?


And Bryguy is correct below...

The framework is already in place, and when they say X by X square miles, the new proposals look a whole lot more like snakes winding up the ledge off shore than a block in some random spot. They know what they're doing.
Now, think of all the barren flat hard bottom between shore and say, 60 miles out. They want to cut off fishing to the places where the fish are.
Other than the steps in 70' and 100', the fish are going to be on the ledge.

So when someone says, oh look, there's 500,000 square miles of ocean off the coast, whats wrong with closing off 100 sq. miles?
Because they're closing off 100 miles of the 500 sq miles where the ocean actually holds fish.

And someone earlier was talking about what your actually catching on the bottom now...

This is how the NMFS plan works. Look at black sea bass a couple years ago.
There was no science to back up their claim that they were overfished but they closed season and cut limits. Then, the only things left on the reefs were knothead seabass and nothing else. The regulators say, "HEY, LOOK AT US!!! WE MADE SEABASS COME BACK!!! You fishermen should thank us!!!"

Then in the same breath is was, "Oh No, for some reason there are seabass everywhere (eating everything else) but there's no Red Snapper... What should we do?" So, they keep red snapper closed.

Now, there's snapper covering up every piece of bottom out there, and they'll say, "LOOK AT US!!! We saved the Red Snapper!!!"

Then, (insert "X Species") will be "threatened", and the whole cycle will begin again.

I know this all started with Cobia, and I shouldn't have fed the troll when CRC brought up bottom fishing which is completely off topic. I'll learn next time...

Wildlifer said:

no doubt they are ultra conservative. I don't have first hand evidence but when it comes to cobia surveys i have heard they go to ramps, count the trailers, assume everyone is fishing and that they got their limit. I know personally I have never seen or been asked about my catch for a survey with the exception of striped bass. If they really want numbers make it more like hunting. If i shoot a deer I am required to report it, the same could be done with these contentious species. I do also realize that there is a sentiment that the agencies really could care less about the numbers and more about limiting fishing and harvest in general.

It's a hard spot to be pragmatic. I want to catch fish just as much as the next guy. I especially want to shoot a cobia and the best chance for that is typically offshore however I also want a flourishing resource that remains healthy. Closing the season cant hurt but only if its warranted since I also want to utilize the resource.

Click to expand...

You're right about their data collection. The ride the ramp by on a bright sunny Saturday with calm winds between May and June and say, "Yep, look at all those trucks, bet they all got their limit!"

Total farce.

I know the information out there is sketchy at best and the agencies making the rules are not very transparent. The only thing I don't fully agree with you on is the closure of areas. I'm am fully aware of the give them an inch and they take a mile mindset and can get on board with that idea. Closing areas is not all bad in my opinion. They close areas in New England for lobsters and rotate through them on a yearly bases. Not really the same but a similar concept here could be beneficial. The only reasonable way to close an area is to close the productive areas and not just a block so I understand that. Close 5 square miles of ledges and not all of the ledges found in a 5 mile block.
I have dove on a few ledges that looked great except they were pretty much devoid of fish high in the food chain. The area has line, sinkers, hooks, and gear all over it. It wasn't a hard stretch of the imagination to believe this was the stomping grounds of a few head boats. That is an extreme example but no matter how many new ledges I dive I can usually find gear. There is really nothing more disheartening about the state of the fisheries than seeing a line of abandoned sea bass pots full of angelfish that will continue to fish until it rusts open. I opened up all of the pots, swam down the ledge found more gear of various kinda and a broken off anchor. All I am really saying is that some areas get hit really hard and could use a break regardless of if its actually a spawning area.

Wildlifer said:

I know the information out there is sketchy at best and the agencies making the rules are not very transparent. The only thing I don't fully agree with you on is the closure of areas. I'm am fully aware of the give them an inch and they take a mile mindset and can get on board with that idea. Closing areas is not all bad in my opinion. They close areas in New England for lobsters and rotate through them on a yearly bases. Not really the same but a similar concept here could be beneficial. The only reasonable way to close an area is to close the productive areas and not just a block so I understand that. Close 5 square miles of ledges and not all of the ledges found in a 5 mile block.
I have dove on a few ledges that looked great except they were pretty much devoid of fish high in the food chain. The area has line, sinkers, hooks, and gear all over it. It wasn't a hard stretch of the imagination to believe this was the stomping grounds of a few head boats. That is an extreme example but no matter how many new ledges I dive I can usually find gear. There is really nothing more disheartening about the state of the fisheries than seeing a line of abandoned sea bass pots full of angelfish that will continue to fish until it rusts open. I opened up all of the pots, swam down the ledge found more gear of various kinda and a broken off anchor. All I am really saying is that some areas get hit really hard and could use a break regardless of if its actually a spawning area.

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I agree that with the advent of gps it has gotten easier and easier for the average Joe to go out and bottom fish. We already have closures for spawnings(that is why grouper are closed now till may) Honestly the NMFS could use the FWS model and send out a catch survey to certain anlgers each year and at least then you would have some scientific way to form a baseline.
Great example I have of first hand how these clowns work.......was asked by a captain of a head boat to come fish a certain day. No charge to me at all. Turns out the Feds were there to conduct 'sampling' of certain bottom species.....capt was ready to take them to some of his numbers to get a good idea of fish stocks. They say no way we want you to fish these numbers(supplied by the fisheries folks) he looked at the numbers and told them they were crazy because it was sand bottom and wouldn't catch anything. But that is where they told him to fish and guess what hardly any fish were caught. So you can assume the fisheries people went back and used that to say the fish sticks were way down. So yeah the Feds use a LOT of junk numbers


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I support the spawning season closures, as bad as I want to go shoot a grouper on the first warm day of spring I know it in the best interest of the stock. I don't really think that its a good substitute for an area closures. What I've seen in some of the NMFS studies and their research is that they tend to use strict scientific methods. They are proven way to conduct research however I think they need to be adapted to better encompass what they are actually looking at. For the example you gave, it works much like a trail camera survey would work on deer. You set the density of cameras and grid them off and record the results to estimate the population. They take a map, grid off the area and go sample it. Anyone knows that you will get more deer on a trail and more fish on a ledge but that't not how the method works. It's not entirely apple to apples since the wandering of deer is not the same as the wandering of fish from ledge to ledge. Better methods all around need to be adopted that include resource stock and harvest data that can be considered reasonably accurate.

You cant hit it to hard as you can only keep 1 per day on Monday/Wednesday/Saturday over 37".

Wildlifer said:

I thought they were going in the right direction by breaking the areas and stocks up and drawing a line at Florida. They broke the cobia and hogfish stocks up that way. Looks like I'll just have to hit it hard in state waters assuming they keep it open. Those rules have not come out yet.

Click to expand...

25contender said:

You cant hit it to hard as you can only keep 1 per day on Monday/Wednesday/Saturday over 37".

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Yeah, and the regulators say that everyone with a CRFL is going every Mon/Wed/Sat and catching their one fish during the entire cobia run

Wildlifer said:

I support the spawning season closures, as bad as I want to go shoot a grouper on the first warm day of spring I know it in the best interest of the stock. I don't really think that its a good substitute for an area closures. What I've seen in some of the NMFS studies and their research is that they tend to use strict scientific methods. They are proven way to conduct research however I think they need to be adapted to better encompass what they are actually looking at. For the example you gave, it works much like a trail camera survey would work on deer. You set the density of cameras and grid them off and record the results to estimate the population. They take a map, grid off the area and go sample it. Anyone knows that you will get more deer on a trail and more fish on a ledge but that't not how the method works. It's not entirely apple to apples since the wandering of deer is not the same as the wandering of fish from ledge to ledge. Better methods all around need to be adopted that include resource stock and harvest data that can be considered reasonably accurate.

Click to expand...

I remember when NC had the fisheries techs at the docks when the heat boats and charters came in and recorded what was caught and size. They got decent data from that but even that is not a good indication because as you know 10% of the guys catch about 90% of the fish on those trips.

I would LOVE to see the data the NCDMF got in 2015 of the red snapper season where they were aging the snapper population by otoliths. I'll bet you a fat puppy that data showed the Feds how off base they were on their stock assessments. I personally have seen more reds the last five years then I have in the 30 years or so I have been bottom fishing of NC for snapper and grouper


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What I don't like is some of the size limit stuff. Haven't caught a legal black drum or sheepshead since the size limit was introduced.

I spend alot of time at the beach and although I've fished there all my life all I'm really good at is catching pinfish and croaker. Love flounder gigging too and the most I've gigged in one night is 4. I can partially blame myself on that one as I don't believe in gig and release and I've saw many a legal fish swim off due to me taking too much time measuring them before sticking.

Will the commercial guys be closed out as well?

Nope... From the bulletin...

"This closure applies to those fishing for cobia recreationally in federal waters from Georgia to New York, from a private vessel, charter vessel, or headboat."
"This closure only applies to the recreational sector. The possession limit of two cobia per day remains in effect for Atlantic cobia that are sold in state or federal waters."

what I understand, this is federal waters. is that not 3 miles out to 200?
3 miles in is state to the means of low tide.

davidson county said:

what I understand, this is federal waters. is that not 3 miles out to 200?
3 miles in is state to the means of low tide.

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Correct the state rules are the same nonsense as last year....for now

yes, the state law is over doing it from what I see, but still better then a total shut down like other fish.
coastal fishing has went down hill alot over the years, and will keep going. when someone in a office makes the rules and never really knows the truth. it will never be good.
some days at the beach, i feel lucky they even let me walk on it,