VA bills to tackle bad apples in the hunting deer with dogs community
- Thread starter CRC
- Start date
CRC
Old Mossy Horns
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DRS
Old Mossy Horns
^ Are you just stirring the pot or do you really have any suggestions on what would work?
Most houndsmen are aware of this bill in VA.
Most houndsmen are aware of this bill in VA.
CRC
Old Mossy Horns
I'm just posting this as information.
Delete it if you want.
Delete it if you want.
RJ1
Ten Pointer
I have found that the dog hunting community on this forum are very well informed about bills that come up in this state and the surrounding states that affect their type of hunting.Now some of the guests that pass thru the forum may not be.
RJ1
Ten Pointer
Yeah,one with a really mad bear.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
I want to know more one what is going on in NC. I know something is brewing and caught wind of a little bit of it.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
Heard something about and introduction of a bill similar to the Georgia regulations. They seemed to know what was being said. Who knows? I don't know which side this is coming from either, all I'm sure of is if it is coming the people involved are keeping it on the down low for now.
1ylab
Six Pointer
I'm sure something is coming. We need to be prepared to fight it. The bill in Virginia comes up for vote before the House today.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
One solution, I have thought about, is a permit system over seen by a houndsmen committee, made up only of houndsmen. That way the ball is on the dog hunters court. It would give the dog hunters a way to police our own and if we didn't I'm sure some other law would come along and make us wish we did. Just a thought. A lot of the dog hunters are not against regulations, they just don't want it to basically outlaw hunting deer with dogs or other game for that matter.
All joking aside the VA law, may be a good compromise. No outlawing, no minimum acreage, but a fine. Problem is how are the fines going to be leveed. What happens when people are catching dogs that are on property they should be on. Lots of problems with such a bill. What about pets and neighbors? What kinds of feuds would that start?
All joking aside the VA law, may be a good compromise. No outlawing, no minimum acreage, but a fine. Problem is how are the fines going to be leveed. What happens when people are catching dogs that are on property they should be on. Lots of problems with such a bill. What about pets and neighbors? What kinds of feuds would that start?
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RJ1
Ten Pointer
I have heard some rumblings about minimum acreage requirements,however I have also heard that if something like the SC bill came up it would also include a right to retrieve section if the dog is less than 100yards from property line.
That was discussed in the parking lot of the Davidson County Commissioner's meeting last week, a rep. East Carolina Houndsmans Association brought that very thing up.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
^ I encourage others to join the ECHA. I have communicated with Todd about some issues in the past. The ECHA has mediated between groups where conflict has arose. IMO I thought the ECHA might lean toward some sort of regulations, but didn't know they might be interested in pursing the above idea.
JDHowell
Ten Pointer
We have reached out to Rep Dixon and those rumors were just that, rumors. The ECHA is working on whats best for NC, AND how to police our own.
JDHowell
Ten Pointer
Not today, the Bill must be read 3 days in a row, Thursday, Friday and Monday, then a vote to follow on Monday.
ncdeerhunterRC
Four Pointer
I have also heard rumors of "Georgia Plan" type legislation being drafted for NC. Given this was also attempted back in 2010 and 2011 and failed, and what is going on in surrounding states, I suspect where there is smoke there is fire. I was in the midst of that fight because it started when Richmond County County Commissioners attempted to secretly ban dog hunting in the county. Acreage restrictions and fines that could and would be unfairly assessed were the central issues back then. There were a lot of "behind the scenes motives" that had nothing to do with people/dog trespassing being pushed by influential people (such as a fee for service still hunting outfit for deer by a local bird hunting preserve owner). Of course the Landowner Protection Act was the result of all of that and I'd submit that it has not been enforced or it would solve some of the problems with "bad apples." Now the prospects of even more regulation to the point of regulating it out of practice is growing.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
JD, I really don't think where I heard this coming from was Rep. Dixon, but then again it was just something I caught wind of.
DRS
Old Mossy Horns
At this same time I was communicating with some NCWR Commissioners and it was at this time I realized the NCWRC could not be trusted with the future of dog hunting for deer. I was being told one thing, but different actions were being taken. That was enough to violate the trust.
1ylab
Six Pointer
ncdeerhunterRC
Four Pointer
DRS, you are correct. In Richmond County, I was appointed to a committee to develop a solution to the problem of conflicts between landowners and dog hunters which we agreed was real. Equal representation in the committee was given to both as far as members on both sides of the issue. The NCWRC was supposed to be the "mediator" of the group to "help" work out the solution. We were told that the NCWRC had no influence on the outcome but found out quickly that was not the case. Case in point, the "Georgia Plan" was put on the table for the committee without any negotiation or discussion allowed. It was a take it or leave it scenario. So in the end, the point of having a committee to "come up with a solution" was null and void. We were simply told that this was the plan as is, take it or leave it, no negotiation. The point of a committee such as this would be to start with a "blank sheet of paper" and generate innovative ideas and discuss as a group. I am 100% convinced that the intent was to get a smaller group of deer dog hunters strong armed into agreeing to the Georgia Plan as a case study for the rest of the state. That ultimately led to the demise of working out any solution. At this point, there is no legislation and we need to be careful so as to not be seen as a group that opposes everything but a group willing to work out a solution. It is just that we have to be given fair opportunity to work on it.
nchunt101
Ten Pointer
This is not ment to be a hijack but as a native of Warren County I have a question. Have lease prices/feed etc gotten so high that clubs have to recruit folks from outside the county. 99% of the issues I have had with torn up roads,poped locks etc are from clubs that have tons of members from across the state. I dont remember the squabbling over a damn deer until this happened. FWIW I do not dog hunt and the few times I determined it is not for me but several close friends do and I would hate to see them loose what they love. Alos how would this affect rabbit hunting?
RJ1
Ten Pointer
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DRS
Old Mossy Horns
nchunt101, I have to agree with RJ1. I have hunted with clubs in Halifax, Nash and Warren counties for near 30 years. The leases have risen quite a bit. Competition for leases both for still hunting and dog hunting has allowed for the higher lease cost. It is just as simple as supply and demand. Many of the dog clubs had to increase the number of memberships to continue to lease areas large enough to be feasible to dog hunt. To increase the membership most clubs have had to look outside the local area. Some of the problems as you mentioned comes from those that are "club hoppers", this club this year another club next year. Many clubs have by-laws that now require a new member to be sponsored by an current member, this helps keep some of the riff-raff out. Unless you are dealing with an outlaw club, most dog clubs will not tolerate such behavior from one of their members. I know the clubs I have hunted with and currently hunt with will not tolerate this behavior from its members. Believe it or not, most dog hunting clubs realize that keeping a good relationship with the surrounding land owners and/or leasees is vital to keeping our loved tradition alive. In the real world situations will arise and need to be dealt with, just as there are some people to the far right and left there are those that will never be happy and will find something to complain about, as well as those that would rather do something wrong when a far better action would have been just as easy or simpler.
One trend that is happening a lot now is clubs merging to increase the amount of property the have to hunt, this also helps share the increase of cost over a more people. The difference in the individuals saving/increased cost may be different depending on what they were paying previous to the merge. The increased amount of property may also allow for a few more members, which more than likely will not be form the local area. Note: Clubs generally do have a set number of memberships based on the amount of hunters a property can handle.
Currently, I'm in a local club in Nash County. We are pretty much all local guys who live or work in the general area. The other club I hunt with is in Edgecombe, Halifax and Martin counties. I drive about 40 minutes one way to hunt there and I can say I treat the locals there just as I do around the house because I know I'm hunting where they live.
This past year was the 1st year I didn't hunt in the red clay, I really didn't know how I would feel. I still miss hunting up here, but our club was getting to low in membership and didn't have enough land to attract new members. After the 2015-2016 hunting season I had to make a choice. I choose to find another club. I could not see paying the price it was going to cost, likely over $1200/member. That club then decided to merge with another, which was a good move IMO, but at that time I had already joined a different club.
One trend that is happening a lot now is clubs merging to increase the amount of property the have to hunt, this also helps share the increase of cost over a more people. The difference in the individuals saving/increased cost may be different depending on what they were paying previous to the merge. The increased amount of property may also allow for a few more members, which more than likely will not be form the local area. Note: Clubs generally do have a set number of memberships based on the amount of hunters a property can handle.
Currently, I'm in a local club in Nash County. We are pretty much all local guys who live or work in the general area. The other club I hunt with is in Edgecombe, Halifax and Martin counties. I drive about 40 minutes one way to hunt there and I can say I treat the locals there just as I do around the house because I know I'm hunting where they live.
This past year was the 1st year I didn't hunt in the red clay, I really didn't know how I would feel. I still miss hunting up here, but our club was getting to low in membership and didn't have enough land to attract new members. After the 2015-2016 hunting season I had to make a choice. I choose to find another club. I could not see paying the price it was going to cost, likely over $1200/member. That club then decided to merge with another, which was a good move IMO, but at that time I had already joined a different club.
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QBD2
Old Mossy Horns
Hb 1900 voted down, but very close.
JDHowell
Ten Pointer
Speaker has pulled the amended bill. HB1900 is DEAD!!!!!
JDHowell
Ten Pointer
ECHA is working closely with the NCWRC and Legislators to come up wit a plan that is fair, yet allows for policing by a group of our peers.
QBD2
Old Mossy Horns
Several fellas in my club took the day off and went to Richmond today. It was supposed to pass, but a couple reps flipped at the last minute. I seriously doubt it would've ever made law, but if not for political douchebaggery it never would've made the floor...
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