Maine politicians to debate bill that would require antler restrictions

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
So because other states do stupid stuff we should do stupid stuff too? Please don't give the General Assembly any stupid ideas. They come up with plenty all on their own!
 

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
What would be stupid about it? NC has a buck/doe ratio problem. APR's would help with that somewhat. Every state that has mandated APR's has had hunters oppose it at first, but after a few years they figure out it works. Arkansas for example..not exactly known for big deer 10 years ago. after APR's came about, overall herd structure has improved drastically. AR led the nation in highest age class of bucks harvested in 2016. 60% of bucks harvested were 3.5 or older. That means a lot of does are getting killed instead of 1 & 2 year old bucks, which improves sex ratio, and promotes bigger bucks. that's a win/win. PA is another state that has greatly improved the quality of hunting in a very heavily pressured state by protecting young bucks and encouraging doe harvest. Deer are born at a 1 to 1 ratio. 15 does to every buck is not what nature intended...humans did that. If nature intended for that to happen it would occur naturally. Take Alligators...They are not born at a 1 to 1. Female hatchlings far outnumber males. Nature knows what its doing. The point of APR's is to try to counteract generations of buck only harvest mindsets and return a deer herd back to that natural balance.
 

wturkey01

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
More and more states enacting mandatory APRs.

Who says it can't happen in NC?

SC did it.


Goog, once again, you post half-truths instead of the real truth!!

With the purchase of a hunting license and big game permit, SC resident hunters will be issued 3 buck tags and 8 doe, or antlerless tags.

Now here's the real truth Goog, residents in SC can purchase 2 extra antlered tags (above the 3 free tags that come with the license) and only these 2 extra tags carry antler restrictions.

Non-residents can purchase up to 4 buck tags and only the last 2 carry antler restrictions.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
What would be stupid about it? NC has a buck/doe ratio problem. APR's would help with that somewhat. Every state that has mandated APR's has had hunters oppose it at first, but after a few years they figure out it works. Arkansas for example..not exactly known for big deer 10 years ago. after APR's came about, overall herd structure has improved drastically. AR led the nation in highest age class of bucks harvested in 2016. 60% of bucks harvested were 3.5 or older. That means a lot of does are getting killed instead of 1 & 2 year old bucks, which improves sex ratio, and promotes bigger bucks. that's a win/win. PA is another state that has greatly improved the quality of hunting in a very heavily pressured state by protecting young bucks and encouraging doe harvest. Deer are born at a 1 to 1 ratio. 15 does to every buck is not what nature intended...humans did that. If nature intended for that to happen it would occur naturally. Take Alligators...They are not born at a 1 to 1. Female hatchlings far outnumber males. Nature knows what its doing. The point of APR's is to try to counteract generations of buck only harvest mindsets and return a deer herd back to that natural balance.

It's called high-grading. It's basic evolutionary theory. Only bucks over x" get killed, eventually you see more bucks under x". Problem is that it happens on a delay, often over a period of decades or longer so most people don't notice it until its already happened. Add to that the fact that I really don't need the government telling me what size buck I can shoot. Like I've said many times on here, some of these so-called "small government conservatives" are the first to want the WRC to regulate deer hunting to death. If you want to enact APRs on your club or your personal land then more power to you. Leave the rest of us alone.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Funny folks still go out and hunt in states with APRs like Arkansas and Georgia.

I guess it doesn't really ruin deer hunting after all.
 

Boojum

Ten Pointer
Antler restrictions are stupid. I have enough sense to figure out whether or not I want to shoot a deer or not. The government is all up in everything too much already, I don't really need government-mandated trophy hunting on top of it. There are plenty of places now where you can shoot a 1 1/2 yo basket-rack 8-pointer, but you can't shoot a 6yo 6-pointer with a huge rack of antlers. Not everyone is a trophy hunter, either, and deer are more than antlers. Not to mention that it goes against all natural laws of predation. It's like saying you can't keep any fish to eat except ten-lb. spawner bass.

Bottom line: I don't tell you what to shoot on your place, I don't need you to tell me what to shoot on mine.
 
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CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Bottom line: I don't tell you what to shoot on your place, I don't need you to tell me what to shoot on mine.

No thats the job of the game department and they do restrict what you can shoot on your property.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
No thats the job of the game department and they do restrict what you can shoot on your property.

The point is that some of us actually oppose unnecessary restrictions, while others seem to welcome them. Which are you?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
The point is that some of us actually oppose unnecessary restrictions, while others seem to welcome them. Which are you?

In some states the certified wildlife biologists think APRs or antler re strictions are necessary.

That said, I don't oppose/would not get upset over more restrictions on deer hunting.

But I do not think APRs are necessary for NC.
 
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Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
In some states the certified wildlife biologists think APRs or antler re strictions are necessary.

That said, I don't oppose/would not get upset over more restrictions on deer hunting.

But I do not think APRs are necessary for NC.

Most that I talk to think they're a some-what effective way of protecting yearlings, but one of the least effective at the same time. Their only benefit is that they're actually enforceable. When approached with the high-grading aspect in private conversations the answer I usually get is something like "I'll be retired before that's an issue…" It's a short-sighted band-aid, not a long-term fix. It's also not the WRC's mission to manage for trophy bucks.
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
More and more states enacting mandatory APRs.

Who says it can't happen in NC?

SC did it
.

Very misleading, sir. Only two SC bucks are required to meet an AR. Two out of five for residents, two out of hour for NR's.
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
Most that I talk to think they're a some-what effective way of protecting yearlings, but one of the least effective at the same time. Their only benefit is that they're actually enforceable. When approached with the high-grading aspect in private conversations the answer I usually get is something like "I'll be retired before that's an issue…" It's a short-sighted band-aid, not a long-term fix. It's also not the WRC's mission to manage for trophy bucks.

Agreed. Plus, isn't half NC already under a two buck limit? That saves a lot of yearlings as is.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
The following is not a recommendation. It is just stating my personal experience on this topic.

If you want to increase antler size, you don't need antler restrictions. You just need to reduce the buck limit to one. I grew up in PA and hunted there before they put in antler restrictions. Since PA had a one buck limit, you were selective as to what you would shoot if your goal was a high scoring buck. There were no second chances. If you saw a bigger buck later, you were out of luck. When I started hunting NC, I no longer had to be selective on the first buck since here in the Central zone, I could shoot another one. One for the freezer and one for the wall if I desired.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
What I don't understand about people's obsession with bringing APRs to NC is the fact that we have some of the most flexible regulations in the country when it comes to our deer hunting. You can literally manage your lease/club just about however you want to. If you want to manage for uber big trophies, you can do that. I know folks that do. If you want to manage for maximum yield, you can do that. I know people that do. If you're in the middle like most of us, there's a million possibilities there as well. You have more freedom to control your local harvest here than most places in the country. You have the least regulations and red tape. Why on earth do all of these people that are always complaining about a government that's too damn big and intrusive want a deer management program that's BIGGER AND MORE INTRUSIVE? I don't get it. I really don't. Is it just the yankees that moved down and are pulling the "the way we did it up north..." card? I don't think it is, but I don't know everybody's background. I just don't get it. Ya'll want more freedom, but when you have it you can't wait to give it up. It's like reading Exodus when the Israelites want to go BACK to Egypt. I just walk away shaking my head. Sigh...
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
What I don't understand about people's obsession with bringing APRs to NC is the fact that we have some of the most flexible regulations in the country when it comes to our deer hunting. You can literally manage your lease/club just about however you want to.

What about hunters stuck hunting game lands?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Is it just the yankees that moved down and are pulling the "the way we did it up north..." card?

APRs for white tailed deer came from South Carolina and Texas first.

QDM and TDM came out of the South first and then spread from there.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Save your money, buy some land or get a lease. Or learn to hunt. I've seen some monsters on gamelands, but you gotta get out of the truck and put some legwork in.

So if the NCWRC decided to join every other state in the southeast and manage a few wmas/game lands for older age class deer, thats a problem?

Better buck management= more older aged bucks in the herd
 
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Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
No, APRs are not part of QDM. APRs are part of TDM, which the state has no business in. Why do you keep wanting the state to tell you what to do?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
No, APRs are not part of QDM. APRs are part of TDM, which the state has no business in. Why do you keep wanting the state to tell you what to do?

Because I have no problems with the state managing 1 or 2 game lands for trophy bucks.

Some folks don't have access to private land but want a good chance at a big buck.

It works in other states and would work here.

I guess all the meat hunters might freak out though.

Key words: "1 or 2". Not every game land.
 
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nccatfisher

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
In some states the certified wildlife biologists think APRs or antler re strictions are necessary.

That said, I don't oppose/would not get upset over more restrictions on deer hunting.

But I do not think APRs are necessary for NC.
No, you shouldn't oppose more restrictions on ANY big game hunting in NC, being as you have never harvested any of it.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Because I have no problems with the state managing 1 or 2 game lands for trophy bucks.

Some folks don't have access to private land but want a good chance at a big buck.

It works in other states and would work here.

I guess all the meat hunters might freak out though.

Key words: "1 or 2". Not every game land.

Until those "1 or 2" gamelands are the only ones within a 2 hour drive of where you live. Then it sucks.
 

Boojum

Ten Pointer
Resistance is futile. You will assimilate and be a trophy hunter, whether you want to or not. Deer without big antlers are worthless. Deer were created to be living room decorations. :D
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
APRs for white tailed deer came from South Carolina and Texas first.

QDM and TDM came out of the South first and then spread from there.

You are misrepresenting true QDM for antlered deer, sir. It's about age, not number of points on one side or a 12" spread.

TDM can be two different acronyms: trophy deer management, or traditional deer management. The former calls for a buck to doe ratio that is obscenely skewed towards the buck end. The latter is shoot any buck you want period and don't ever shoot does.
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
SC has several WMA's managed for "QDM" as they call it, but its merely a 12" spread or 4 points on one side rule. They are nice places to hunt, but I think overall SC has more state land than NC to play around with.

Nearly all of them are lottery draw hunts. Any NC deer hunter who wants an excellent chance on some unpressured public land should consider submitting for a drawing sometime. One of the ones that isn't a drawing has some fantastic land, too.
 
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