Thoughts on Amazon and Big Box Store Era

highbrassdivers

Button Buck
I'd like to start of by saying that I have enjoyed reading this forum for the past several years. I do so almost every workday during my lunch. Although I have rarely posted, this site has been a great alternative to checking news sites as I did previously during lunch. From what I can tell the members here are generally like minded and share many of the same interests and principles that I do.

Lately I've seen numerous posts that reference Amazon and it got me to thinking about our current mentality when it comes to purchasing goods. For background reference, I am 31 and help manage my family's business (I represent the fourth generation of family ownership). We are in the automotive industry and our work is labor intensive which I truly enjoy. In the past several years I have personally noticed a massive swing in folks who want to purchase goods online for the lowest possible cost. Big Box Stores and companies like Amazon have cashed in on this mentality by squeezing manufacturers to produce at lower costs and in many cases selling products at or below cost to help monopolize the markets. Just like anyone else I too love a good deal but recently I've had to step back and think what these "good deals" mean for our economy. In my area we are seeing many small independent businesses go under due to competition. My family's business is fortunate to be somewhat diversified and thus stable but it still saddens me to see small businesses forced to close.

The question that I would like to pose to the fellow members here is what happens when the small businesses are gone? As box stores and online retailers take market share there is suddenly lower demand for skilled tradesmen. It is hard to expect a good living wage from working in a fulfillment center for an online retailer. The same goes for Big Box Stores where employees are needed more for stocking shelves than for their working knowledge of product. As our buying habits force retailers to sell cheaper products and increase automation we are even further shrinking the availability of skilled labor jobs. All this while even more students pursue College Education. My goal here is not to offend anyone but simply to remind folks of how important their buying power is! Where and how you spend your money will have direct results and can greatly impact communities. If you shop at an independent business you are reinforcing the need for your community to have knowledgeable and skilled tradesmen. Online retailers and big box stores are not going away and in some respects are needed for our economy. However it is important we remember that if we don't support independent small businesses now they might not be here in the future and we will be forced to live with the consequences!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I'm glad to get it off my chest. I'll go back to enjoying everyone's stories during my lunch break now!
 

hurricanepeppers

Six Pointer
I think that money goes where it is treated well. I have an obligation to my family to provide. We stretch out money as far as we can so if Amazon can get me the best deal then they win that time. I understand what you saying and I feel it Everytime someone says my fresh sausage is priced higher than the grocery store.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Harpoon

Guest
Same could be said for FaqBook, and how its hurting these small online forums.....

Eventually all of those FB "pages/forums" that people come on here "promoting" are going to be subject to "their FB rules" and you know what that means.....

....... when there is no place else to go.
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
Truly skilled tradesmen will always have a job, provided the trade is viable.

I understand your point, however, at the end of the day, it's business. Survive and adapt, or close it down. It's been that way since one caveman could make a better spear...
 
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skydog

Guest
I hate myself a little inside every time I order something from Amazon...

That said, my household buys most everything on there for the price and convenience.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
I shop at Amazon for the price and convenience.

I shop at Home Depot or Walmart more for the convenience. I can visit one store for multiple items instead of multiple stores for one item each.
 

mekanizm

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
They are working on improving their shipping to same day. The youngest generation now won't even have to learn to drive.
 

took

Ten Pointer
Contributor
I buy a great deal from Amazon and most of my clothes on-line as well. Mainly just due to convenience and competitive pricing. Though, I do support a locally owned hardware store that I am in just about every Saturday. Their prices may be a little higher than HD and Lowes; but they are very nice, have what I need, and are only about 4 miles from me. I am glad to support the local business for that. But again, the convenience of getting in and out is another factor, even if costs a little more.
 
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DRS

Old Mossy Horns
I'll support a small local business, if and when I can. The problem is many don't carry specialty items, due to overhead. On top of that many have to order even some common things. They do the same thing I would do order off the internet and then mark the item up. Just like some of the gun shops around I have tried to business with, just because my interest is not in AR's and long range rifles they kind of blew me off and acted more like I was a PITA. I turned to the internet so I can get what I want without the BS. I do and have gave local bait shops my business, I just don't fish as much as I did. I gave my business to an independent hardware store, but I recon enough other people didn't. I hated to see them close. They were more a general merchandise store and would order me what ever I needed, without a fuss and were truly nice people. I didn't mind paying a little more. Lots of places have forgot customer service/relations and if I have to deal with arrogant A-holes I'll just order off the net myself. In one local gun shop I will never forget me asking for certain box of bullets, that they had. I was told I didn't want those, that I would do better with "said" bullet. Well, I tried to tell the guy my rifle was sighted in with what a wanted and that I have had good results with them. He still insisted on selling me a different bullet and actually the one I wanted was more expensive. I got my bullets, after nearly having to get mad. Well, I never went back and overtime the doors closed. I also do business with an independent tire shop/garage. I eat breakfast or lunch a lot in a independent grill. I want to see the small guy make a living. I do think it is better for the community, but I like to be treated like a valued costumer.
 
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Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
If you can compete you thrive, if you can not you die.

If given the same choice for the same price I will spend money with the local guy.. if given a better product I will spend more money for it.. same product at a higher price.. not so much.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
If you can compete you thrive, if you can not you die.

If given the same choice for the same price I will spend money with the local guy.. if given a better product I will spend more money for it.. same product at a higher price.. not so much.

concur,,,,,
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
They are working on improving their shipping to same day. The youngest generation now won't even have to learn to drive.

I heard a story on the radio yesterday confirming that. I think it said less than half of 18 year olds now do not have their drivers license and only 75% of 20-24 year olds do. That's crazy.


As far as the OP goes, small business will never survive on charity or loyalty buying. Especially in hard times. People will make the best financial decision for their family. It is the job of small businesses everywhere to figure out their niche in the market. It may be capitalizing on convenience, quality, service, or selection, but they have to figure out something that makes them more attractive than the big places, in order to give their customers value for their dollar.
 

DRS

Old Mossy Horns
Kinda like a friend told me once about restaurants, you need at least two: cheap prices, good food and/or great service.
 

apexhunter

Ten Pointer
The issue has become a lack of understanding or appreciation for the difference between price and value. If one is looking for item X they can certainly find it available for varying prices between local retailers, box stores and online giants and if the item is a basic commodity then they are most likely looking for the best price. The differentiating aspect a small/local business provides is the value of convenience, product knowledge, selection, customer service, product service (where possibly applicable) and familiarity with the person you are buying from when not dealing with a commodity item. The phrase "value added" really hits home when dealing with local businesses because many provide more than simply selling the item...and that is a main aspect that today's smart entrepreneurs utilize to be successful.
 

GSOHunter

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
I worked in the saltwater aquarium industry from 2000-2003. People would come in and ask all sorts of questions and then you wouldn't hear from them for a few months then they would come back in and complain about all their fish or corals dying. When asked where they got them they would respond online. We would explain that we are there to help them make smart and informed purchases in the store and would provide all the help they need. Many would continue to buy online and get our free advice. It took a while but we finally realized that they were never going to buy something so we told them to ask the online store for help. They of course responded that they don't provide help and that's why the prices are lower.

We live in a now society. We had limited stock at the time but could order just about anything and have it in within 7 days. That was not fast enough then and it is definitely not fast enough now. You can find just about anything on Amazon and get it within 2-48 hours. Traditional stores and companies will have to adapt or die. Cities and states need to work hard to attract shipping warehouses and data centers.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
We buy most home stuff in local stores. A little bit at Sams sometimes, but not much.

Hunting/Fishing items though, if a local guy (LOCAL. Not Gander/F&S/BassPro) is within 10% of online, I'll buy there since I like being able to touch and feel, and a lot of times the shipping will narrow that gap. Local guys appreciate the transaction.

If a local guy doesn't have it, I will buy at Midway/CTD/Cabelas before Amazon

Case in point. I need a Vortex Venom, but in no real hurry. Amazon is $199, Midway is $219, and my local guys have it for $229 right up the road from the house.
Unless Midway runs a $20 off $200 special in the next month or two, I'm buying from the local guy and be glad to do it. Mostly since they're local, convenient, and I enjoy their shop.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
Kinda like a friend told me once about restaurants, you need at least two: cheap prices, good food and/or great service.

Side observation. Not about Amazon. I've noticed down here in the Triad that no restaurants are only open certain days to drive demand.
The fish camps (and other restaurants) back home have been in business, doing GOOD business, for decades only being open Friday, Saturday, and Sunday afternoons. Parking lot is full every time you drive by on a weekend.
Now, that may be economics because less people eat out as frequently back home, and weekends are the big draw...

Seems like here, unless you're super established, a lot of eateries are revolving doors of ownership. Rave reviews, great food, but empty lots M-Th.

But, I'd think creating limited supply of a quality product would entice more people to try that model around here since there's so many other options for dining throughout the week.

It may just come down to most properties having high leases and not owning the dirt, but you'd think cutting half the operating expense while maximizing peak income times would work.
IDK, maybe that's why I build restaurants instead of run them... :)
 

dpc

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I have pretty much differentiated my store in order to avoid getting beat by the box stores. More and more companies products that I carry are getting better about regulating and even pulling their product from online retailers who don't comply to MAP pricing. I beat a lot of prices on the box stores, but the average shopper assumes the box stores are cheaper and that is not the case.

By biggest concern is the distributors I use keep getting gobbled up by two major distributors. This is starting to leave nothing unique to carry because they are to big to supply and limiting my buying power.
 

Jlewis74

Old Mossy Horns
When you say Automotive Industry do you mean sales or service or both?

As for Amazon I do shop there a lot, example I purchased a pair of boots from them this morning. I shopped local and cheapest I could find was $150 got them with one day shipping for less than $100 for the exact same thing. If I had found them local for something close to that I would have purchased them local.
 

highbrassdivers

Button Buck
Thank you to all those who commented and stated their opinions. As I tried to mention in my initial post, I am not judging others by where or how they purchase their goods. Although I know I'm a bit biased due to my family business I really just wanted to see how others felt. I also think there were some really good points made.

One was regarding the aquarium example where folks wanted to buy elsewhere but get the knowledge for free. Also I agree with the adapt to survive mentality which is certainly required today. The example of buying boots local or buying online and saving $50 makes perfect sense. This goes along with the example of businesses expecting to live off of charitable purchases.

To answer the last question, my business deals with product manufacturing and also servicing vehicles. We work both in wholesale accounts and also retail end user sales. We've been fortunate to develop a niche over the years that offers some job security.

Thanks again to those who commented and it was good to hear other points of view!
 

Markfromflorida

Eight Pointer
I feel your pain. I worked for a 4th generation marine supply store in Tampa in the late 90s early 2000s. I was in charge of order/inventory/sell electronics and fishing gear.

Once online websites got ramped up; I saw a noticeable decline in sales. Especially electronics. The markup for gps/ff was ~10%. frankly, not much to justify keeping 1/2million $ in inventory. Online guys could sell for 3% profit and not have the overhead that an actual store has.

I also started seeing people just come in and "window shop" for electronics and fishing reels. (Another item with small % profit)

My work overcame and is still doing well. They focused on installations of electronics and other boat mods.

It was frustrating tho, to spends 1/2 hour teaching customers how to use electronics, and then know that they leave and order online.
But, the Internet genie has been let out, and there is no going back.
 

bshobbs

Old Mossy Horns
I feel your pain.

It was frustrating tho, to spends 1/2 hour teaching customers how to use electronics, and then know that they leave and order online.
But, the Internet genie has been let out, and there is no going back.

I know that ferling. I worked for a family owned tackle shop and got that all the time. Take it out of the box, show all about the unit and see them walk out the door. Next time I saw one guy I asked him about it, he said he bought it online cheaper, same unit.
 
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EMB

Ten Pointer
Unfortunately Many people today want convenience. The convenience of not having to drive, not having to shop, not having to deal with others etc., in their search for what they are looking for. We have become a society of cell phones, internet and non-personal speaking. Walk down a major street today and most people are staring at their phones, caring less about anyone around them. Todays work environment requires many longer hours and the convenience of being able to use the little free time many have to shop online without their bosses knowing or anyone else.

I use Amazon for things I cannot find locally, I don't use it like many for clothing, or things I need to touch and feel to understand the quality behind it. But things that I see everywhere (cheaper items) and at a variety of prices, I will look at Amazon or other sites. Why should I pay a brick and mortar $20, plus my gas, plus my time, when I can get the same or similar item online at half the cost and free delivery to my door? Sure I won't see it for a couple days, but I've saved myself a good amount of time and money by not wasting fuel or my time.

While I agree society is changing to this aspect of purchasing as well as other areas of human contact, it is a scary thought to think, one day Joes Deli or ABC Furniture or Tommy's Auto parts (all fictitious) will be gone and we will be a society of button pressers to get products we need to live with and survive. Does it make it easier yes, convenient, yes, but it also makes it less human as many lose the aspect of communication, art of bargaining, negotiating and humanity all together. Price will eventually be price and controlled by only a few, it will eventually lead to less competition, quality will suffer, and eventually interaction of human beings will only be a thought.

Kind of like reading Orson Wells book 1984, a man way ahead of his time, but all he wrote back in the 70's is now reality. I wonder how long before Soylent Green (find the book and read it) becomes part of our future, I hope not in my time.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Folks,,,,amazon and such are temporary,,,,,

3D printers will be the delivery method of the future ,,,,,

Raw material delivered by a distro system (like water) and purchases printed upon payment,,,

Folks in the sticks will still need other means as raw material will be an issue,,,

That's when we'll all get moved to "communities"
 
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woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
of like reading Orson Wells book 1984, a man way ahead of his time, but all he wrote back in the 70's is now reality. I wonder how long before Soylent Green (find the book and read it) becomes part of our future, I hope not in my time.

George Orwell and "1984" was written in 1949,,,,cool book (first read it in the 70s) but more about totalitarian government than about refined commercial public consumption distribution systems
 
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JJWise

Twelve Pointer
I agree with you, when possible I buy from local stores, especially for sporting goods. However sometimes a deal is too good to pass. Last year I got a Browning Lever Action from Sportsmans Guide because it was almost $100 cheaper than anywhere else. I feel good spending a few extra bucks that I know are going to local guys, but for that much money I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
 
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