Hunting hypothetical Q.

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Which would you rather be on during the peak of the rut in the central hunt zone in NC ?

you have a choice of two identical 500 private acre tracts, food, habitat, identical.

Located side by side. One tract has doe killing as part of their plan.

One tract allows no does to be harvested.

Given the choice which would you hunt?

My bias is to want to hunt with unmolested safe sanctuary does.

I want as many as possible in my area during the peak of the rut.

What are your thoughts?
 
darkthirty

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
For me it has nothing to do with the number of does. It has all to do with no pressure. Dumb does in the rut equal dumb love sick bucks behind them.
 
Firedog

Firedog

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I agree with QBD2. However, lets assume for a second that you could keep all your deer on your 500 acre hypothetical.. then your premise breaks down because in a scenario where no does are being killed you have a much higher population, higher stress on resources etc so the two properties are not the same.. ... in addition, assuming you have been killing bucks only for years, your ratio is likely all jacked up and there is no "Peak" of the rut as it will be spread over several months with bucks not having to move much to find a hot doe.

I would much rather hunt the property that has been managed for B/D ratio (or left completely alone for years to let nature fix it) or even on the one with fewer doe that cause the bucks to move more to find a hot one.
 
Newsome Road

Newsome Road

Ten Pointer
Firedog said:
I agree with QBD2. However, lets assume for a second that you could keep all your deer on your 500 acre hypothetical.. then your premise breaks down because in a scenario where no does are being killed you have a much higher population, higher stress on resources etc so the two properties are not the same.. ... in addition, assuming you have been killing bucks only for years, your ratio is likely all jacked up and there is no "Peak" of the rut as it will be spread over several months with bucks not having to move much to find a hot doe.

I would much rather hunt the property that has been managed for B/D ratio (or left completely alone for years to let nature fix it) or even on the one with fewer doe that cause the bucks to move more to find a hot one.
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Agree, especially with that last sentence. A smart mature buck is hard to kill. We all know that. We all know our best chance to get him is typically when he's after a hot doe. When you have 30 does on an acre of land, old boy doesn't have to move much to find some loving. He's also probably malnourished because they have eaten everything in sight.
 
aya28ga

aya28ga

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I look at it this way; If tract "A" has had most of the does on it killed, why would you expect to find a buck on it during the rut?

When you were a young man did you go to the places were the girls weren't, or the club that was having ladies night?

I'll take the tract with undisturbed does every time. Not only will the resident bucks be around, you'll have a better chance of crossing paths with a wandering buck thats roaming out of his territory.
 
n.d.woods

n.d.woods

Eight Pointer
[in addition, assuming you have been killing bucks only for years, your ratio is likely all jacked up and there is no "Peak" of the rut as it will be spread over several month

I would much rather hunt the property that has been managed for B/D ratio (or left completely alone for years to let nature fix it) or even on the one with fewer doe that cause the bucks to move more to find a hot one.[/QUOTE]

This is the property you want too hunt, Firedog nailed it, my properties with a lot of unpressured does are no where near as good as my properties with closer buck doe ratios. The bucks are bigger n easier to kill.
 
FishHunt

FishHunt

Old Mossy Horns
Either one. I grew up hunting in the NC Sandhills where the buck to doe ratio was way too many does to few and far in between bucks. It sucked. I'd never go back to that way of hunting or deer management willingly.

I am lucky enough to hunt a place where there were too many does 10+ years ago and the neighbors and guest hunters started shooting a lot of does when the extra doe tags became available. There are now a lot more daylight sightings of bucks during the rut and the overall weight of bucks and does is higher than previous years. I've been hunting on this land since 1996 and have saw the number of bucks go up and nicer racked bucks since the surplus does were taken out.

If you don't enjoy deer meat and all you do is horn hunt I'd guess those types would choose the property where the does were not killed.

<>< Fish
 
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HorNhnTr

Twelve Pointer
I'd hunt either tract... wouldn't matter which tract because your chances are good on either farm. Shooting does or not shooting does isn't gonna make any difference.
 
MJ74

MJ74

Old Mossy Horns
I can say with absolute certainty that whichever property I hunt will be the wrong one.
 
ScottyB

ScottyB

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
MJ74 said:
I can say with absolute certainty that whichever property I hunt will be the wrong one.
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As long as I am in a deer stand.... it doesn't matter to me.... i just want to sit in a tree! A buck would just be a bonus!!
 

30/06

Twelve Pointer
Have a debate with our landowner at least once a year about this, he says shoot all the does you see and the bucks will move. I say your right, they'll move right down the road to the neighbors property that hasn't shot all the does and hasn't hunted the crap out of their land trying to kill does prior to the rut.

While I realize that NC will never be like the midwest the one thing I noticed about Iowa especially but also KY is the deer movement at all hours of the day. In Iowa the deer rarely ever see people, the farmers are there to plant corn, spray it and harvest it. Always on a piece of machinery, deer don't get harassed. KY is similar. Everywhere I've hunted in NC has much more human traffic, people cutting firewood, checking cows, driving 4 wheelers all over, etc.
 
Weekender

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
Put me on the doe killing tract please. I want to kill that great big old doe with old frost bite wounds on her ears and never seems to have fawns with her. She's a trophy and she's busted more hunters than bucks of a similar age.
 
hayco10

hayco10

Eight Pointer
If you have a large tract, killing does will make the bucks roam more looking for them, but on a small tract, the bucks will wander to where the does are left alone, next door on neighboring tracts
 
sky hawk

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Given the exact scenario you mentioned, with no additional variables, given the same population of deer, I'd choose the one where the does had not been shot RECENTLY. The assumption is the one without does being shot will be pressured less, and the property that has not been pressured will be better.

Long term, year in and year out, I want does shot because it's the best thing for the population, sex ratio, nutrition, and the rut itself. But I don't want those does shot DURING the rut. That's why I try to shoot mine in September, early October, and after Thanksgiving. If you changed the scenario and said would I rather have a property with 4 does shot off of it opening week and not hunted again until the rut vs. one where no deer had been shot at all, but it had been hunted twice a week, every week, I'd take the first every time.

A dominant buck can't begin to breed all of the does within his home range. When the rut hits, he gets the first one, and all the does that come in over the next 24-48 hours are picked up by other bucks. Then he gets another one and another until it's over. He is not going to breed a majority of the does though. That means the total number of does present is not going to change whether that mature buck stays on that property or not, as long as there is at least a few around. But hunting pressure will. Pressure, not doe harvest, is what will make a buck leave.
 
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darkthirty

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
sky hawk said:
A dominant buck can't begin to breed all of the does within his home range. When the rut hits, he gets the first one, and all the does that come in over the next 24-48 hours are picked up by other bucks. Then he gets another one and another until it's over. He is not going to breed a majority of the does though. That means the total number of does present is not going to change whether that mature buck stays on that property or not, as long as there is at least a few around. But hunting pressure will. Pressure, not doe harvest, is what will make a buck leave.
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That's untrue Skyhawk because according to a lot of discussion on here, it's seems there isn't 10 deer left in the state...................and what areas have more Than ten, well the coyotes will kill all them next year.........
 
Buxndiverdux

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
oldest school said:
Which would you rather be on during the peak of the rut in the central hunt zone in NC ?

you have a choice of two identical 500 private acre tracts, food, habitat, identical.

Located side by side. One tract has doe killing as part of their plan.

One tract allows no does to be harvested.

Given the choice which would you hunt?

My bias is to want to hunt with unmolested safe sanctuary does.

I want as many as possible in my area during the peak of the rut.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

That would be ML season? Right? I'd take the farm with less Does. But I don't think bow hunting pressure would be enough to matter before the rut.

It would be different if you said Eastern Season with rifles and dogs rolling everywhere. Then I'd take less rifle, dog pressure every day all day....
 

oldest school

Old Mossy Horns
Buxndiverdux said:
That would be ML season? Right? I'd take the farm with less Does. But I don't think bow hunting pressure would be enough to matter before the rut.

It would be different if you said Eastern Season with rifles and dogs rolling everywhere. Then I'd take less rifle, dog pressure every day all day....
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i didnt define that and let everyone make their own assumptions on peak of the rut. average conception as determined by the ncwrc does fall within your time frame.
 

cheapdate

Eight Pointer
oldest school said:
Which would you rather be on during the peak of the rut in the central hunt zone in NC ?

you have a choice of two identical 500 private acre tracts, food, habitat, identical.

Located side by side. One tract has doe killing as part of their plan.

One tract allows no does to be harvested.

Given the choice which would you hunt?

My bias is to want to hunt with unmolested safe sanctuary does.

I want as many as possible in my area during the peak of the rut.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
The fewer the does, the better the rut hunting. And let's face it, the rut hunting is what we all wait for all year.
 
btsharky

btsharky

Twelve Pointer
My strategy has been to listen to the guys around me shoot like crazy at anything that moves and normally by rut time the few does that are left have come to my "safe" haven. First of the season I was seeing very little on one particular farm but listening to the guys brag about the numbers they were killing. While they were taking care of the scrubs I started getting more activity building up to 10-15 deer each time. Ended up killing a 18.5" buck towards the end of the season and never shot at anything else in there.
 
badlandbucks

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
Buxndiverdux said:
I didn't say I didn't hunt the rut. Just that I prefer to hunt when bucks are more predictable.
Click to expand...

There is a lot of truth to that. The seeking and chasing phases of the rut are some of the toughest times to target a specific buck. Early October cold fronts and late season cold fronts are where it's at if you are trying to pattern a mature buck.
 
Greg

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
I don't have the luxury of considering these things too seriously. If I'm seeing a decent number of does, I'll kill one or two. If not, I'll save them for seed and buck bait. Most importantly, I do my best to keep the pressure to a minimum.
 
darkthirty

darkthirty

Old Mossy Horns
My buddy hunted a big deer on a farm almost every single day of the season. New cutover, hardwood bottoms and winter wheat. Stands were in areas he could slip in and out without ever spooking any deer. He saw numerous very nice deer on several occasions. He saw young deer and several does almost every sit. Bordering properties were all hunted and most were weekend warriors shooting anything. He told us not to shoot a deer until big deer was shot or he had given up on him. Again he hunted this property almost every single day of the season sometimes morning and evening. We all had just about given up on him and my buddy was starting to go insane. He was seeing deer that 99% of hunters in this state would shoot in a heartbeat and proudly mount but he was hellbent on that one deer. He killed the deer the week before Christmas when he and a cowhorn came out in a winter wheat field completely undisturbed at 3:45 in the afternoon....... I killed a 6 1/2 year old doe the following morning eating with 4 other deer at 930 in the morning standing in a wide open cow pasture on the same property. Me and him went back that morning with the sole intentions of killing some does. I don't really think it's rocket science. Deer and ducks are the two easiest critters in the world to kill if they ain't bothered and boogered constantly.

 
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