"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

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Jett

Ten Pointer
Anyone that thinks these things don't impact wildlife in a area, needs to take a stroll through the agriculture area at Alligator River NWR and then talk to folks about how many deer used to be there compared to how many are there now. The only thing that has changed in that area is the introduction of these "wolves".
Wanchese,
The Alligator River NWR was acquired with yet another lie by USFWS. I spent many a day following bird dogs throughout the farm fields of East Lake. USFWS held public "hearings" and promised all us local hunters that nothing would change when they bought it and we could hunt it as we always had. Since you are local to the area, you know this is far from true. I never knew my trust in our government could reach such an all time low. We have gone from "I can not tell a lie, I cut the cherry tree down" to "You can keep your Health insurance plan if you like it"
 

Aythya

Eight Pointer
Would not know the number of deer killed by a pack of so called red wolves, but I would suspect it is similar to that of coyotes. Recent research on Fort Bragg and Savannah River wildlife areas have coyotes taking about 75% of last years fawn crop.
 

nchunter

Twelve Pointer
Would not know the number of deer killed by a pack of so called red wolves, but I would suspect it is similar to that of coyotes. Recent research on Fort Bragg and Savannah River wildlife areas have coyotes taking about 75% of last years fawn crop.

Wow! 75%! Makes me want to get some LarryR gear and start staying up all night.
 

kahunter

Eight Pointer
On another note and not to stir the pot just fyi, it is probably one of the best things to happen to wood ducks and any other breeding waterfowl in the area (i would assume most of ducks breeding would be wood ducks). Wolves and yotes do not actively seek out nests and obviously cant climb trees, but have no time for foxes, coons, skunks, possums, etc, all which are heavy egg eaters and duckling predators and kill them every chance they get. So atleats something is benefiting.
 

Harpoon

Guest
Interesting. The registered email corresponds to one Captain Sterling Vorus. Go ahead and google him. He seems to be some kind of big deal. And the IP address used for registration is 201.54.45.48 out of brazil. He's also registered another acct, andrew, which won't see the light of day.


Whoops.....

Conman flushes another out of deep cover.

How deep is Lake Phelps...?...lol.....;)

imagesCA6OF8G5.jpg
 

Jett

Ten Pointer
Interesting. The registered email corresponds to one Captain Sterling Vorus. Go ahead and google him. He seems to be some kind of big deal. And the IP address used for registration is 201.54.45.48 out of brazil. He's also registered another acct, andrew, which won't see the light of day.

Check out Sterling Vorus's (AKA Duck Hunter) letter to the editor in the Wilmington Star News 11/9/13:

Save endangered wolves

I am saddened by last week's news of two red wolves shot and killed in Eastern North Carolina this year. This will make the ninth wolf killed since the first of the year.

The red wolf was declared functionally extinct in the wild by 1980. In 1987, red wolves raised in captivity were released into the Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge. At present, the entire population of red wolves in the wild number around 100 individuals, and live in a five-county area in the eastern part of our state.

The hunting of coyotes, which closely resemble the red wolf, is driving this critically endangered species toward extinction.

Hunters are confusing the two species, and wolves are being killed at an alarming rate. It is the responsibility of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission to manage our state's wildlife populations. If the commission does not act quickly, the sun will forever set on this species, and on the 26-year-old red wolf recovery program.

The red wolf reintroduction program is something all North Carolinians should be proud of. It represents the first time an apex predator – functionally extinct in the wild – has been successfully reintroduced in its historical habitat. I ask the commission to take the steps necessary to save red wolves from extinction.

Please place a coyote-hunting moratorium on the five-county red wolf recovery area.

William Sterling Vorus, Wilmington
 

nc rabbit hunter

Guest
His talking points gave him away!!! Sounded like our fight against the HSUS couple of years ago in Raleigh. The foxpen ban confirmed my point of this guys agenda!
 
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Jett

Ten Pointer
Here is another angle to the Red Wolf Scandal!!!!!!

Red Wolves Veiled Attempt to Stop All Hunting in Five-county Area
December 7, 2013
Share: FacebookTwitterGoogle+tumblrDiggLinkedInStumbleUponRedditPinterest

By Fred Bonner | Special to the County Compass
Fred Bonner, Aurora

Fred Bonner, Aurora

The $26,000 reward, put together by animal rights groups, for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person (or persons) who recently killed red wolves is a pretty good example of a “knee-jerk reaction.”

They’re offering a substantial amount of reward money when it isn’t even known yet whether or not a crime has even been committed.

Last week the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service released information on the recently killed wolves that sparked the reward offer, stating that these wolves were killed on private property. The only possible violation of the law that I can see is that the killer(s) of the wolves did not report the kill to the authorities so that they could retrieve the dead wolf’s carcasses.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s own rules that say that it isn’t a violation of the Endangered Species Act if someone accidentally kills a red wolf as part of a legal activity on private property. Since a large number of coyotes are outfitted with radio-tracking collars similar to those placed on red wolves, it is indeed doubly easy to mistake one of our legal to shoot-on-sight (day or night in 95 North Carolina Counties) coyotes for one of the red wolves.

Since a substantial number of the red wolves (and coyotes) are killed on our roadways by motor vehicles as the animals feed on decaying road kill, I suppose that under the federal rules it would be a violation of the ESA if the vehicle should have been speeding at the time it hit the wolf.

By the Fed’s own rules, they are bound to catch errant red wolves that wander off the USFWS refuges (and off private property where the landowners are handsomely paid to let the wolves roam) and return them to the property where they are under federal protection. The facts are clear that the USFWS has not been able to do this. The red wolves and their “kissin-cousin” coyotes don’t read the laws so they’re excused when they wander and kill domestic and desirable wildlife.

When I attended some of the Congressional hearings concerning the reintroduction of the gray wolf in Yellowstone National Park, I listened to a Congresswoman Helen Chenoweth from Wyoming berate the Secretary of the Department of the Interior Bruce Babbitt for not letting hunters go intoYellowstone and remove the obviously over-abundant elk from the park.

The Secretary replied: “Madam Congresswoman, we have laws that make it illegal to hunt in any of our National Parks.” The congresswoman’s reply was: “Mr. Secretary, you’re talking to Congress and I guess that we can change that law, can’t we?”

Of course, the no-hunting rule in Yellowstone was not revoked and the Yellowstone wolves have done a fair job of thinning out the elk herd there. It’s ironic that trained and ethical hunters could have done the same thing at virtually no cost to the taxpayers. I suppose a lot of anti-hunters haven’t realized that man has, in essence, become the necessary top predator in many ecosystems.

It dawned on many of us in those hearings that the U.S.Government can use anti-hunting laws as a reason to introduce a top predator-like the wolf to control excess animals like deer and elk and preserve the balance of nature, while hunting is prohibited.

When the U.S. Government began to acquire vast portions of the Eastern North Carolina landscape, I believe that it was part of the bargain with the State of North Carolina that hunting and fishing was to be allowed on these National Wildlife Refuges. The seasons to hunt and fish were still left up to the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. A similar arrangement was set up when the National Seashores (note that they are not called “Parks”) on the Outer Banks of North Carolina were formed. Many people are amazed to find out that you can still hunt on these National Seashores.

Some of the best sport hunting can still be had on our huge National Forest and our National Wildlife Refuges. This “open for hunting” rule has raised the hackles of many animal rightists and anti-hunters for years now. They sincerely feel that hunting should not be allowed on these publicly owned lands. (How about our North Carolina State Parks? No hunting there!).

Kim Wheeler of the Red Wolf Coalition recently stated: “I do, I do believe. You know hunting is the number one cause of red wolf mortality. Last week we had two wolves killed, one on Monday and one on Wednesday. Something has to give and that again, in my perfect world, would be to not have any hunting in that five county recovery area.”

It has become clear that this could be one of the reasons that many have to justify the existence of the red wolf in our state. This introduction of this top predator in North Carolina could be the beginning of a movement to stop all hunting in Beaufort, Hyde, Dare, Tyrell and Washington Counties and eventually on all publicly owned land in North Carolina.

http://compassnews360.com/node/2013...empt-to-stop-all-hunting-in-five-county-area/
 

Jett

Ten Pointer
I JUST SENT THIS EMAIL TO OUR NCWRC:

I sincerely hope you men are on top of this issue. Don't let SELC make a mockery of our NCWRC as they have our DOT.

"In order to protect the dwindling red wolf species, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will likely need to contest the coyote hunting law and build their recovery area back into a safe haven where no hunting is permitted at all."

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/north-carolina-hunters-shoot-endangered-wolves/


HERE ARE THEIR EMAIL ADDRESSES YOU NEED. PLEASE LET THEM HEAR FROM YOU!!!

mitchstclair@suddenlink.net, dslaughi@aol.com, coley@bpropnc.com, tom.berry@berico.com, johnc@sboil.com, garry.spence@ncwildlife.org, Richard.edwards@ncwildlife.org, davidwhoylejr@gmail.com, ray.clifton@ncwildlife.org, wes@seegarsfence.com, joe@enceechemical.com, rwhite@mindspring.com, BSkinner3@aol.com, hayden.rogers@ncwildlife.org, druffin@triad.rr.com, jcogdell@forkstables.com, timothy.spear@ncwildlife.org, tfonville@fmrealty.com, Tom.berry@berico.com, john.clark@sampsonbladen.com, david.cobb@ncwildlife.org, mallory.martin@ncwildlife.org, gordon.myers@ncwildlife.org;

Who would have thought Southern Environmental Law Center could stop the rebuilding of the 50 year old Oregon Inlet bridge and have our Governor basically begging them (SELC) to go away?
 
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lilbilly

Guest
Thanks for posting up the email addresses - just sent them an email.
 

Jett

Ten Pointer
Wolf or Coyote? Let's hear what you think!

woof 2.jpg

Notice the time and date
 
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Jett

Ten Pointer
So....is a "part wolf" canine protected? If you were coyote hunting would you shoot it?
 

willch

Twelve Pointer
Well since I don't hunt in the "five" county range I'd shoot it for sure and wouldn't think twice about it.
 

Chris Weinheimer

Guest
Let’s stop wasting time, energy and money on the “red wolf” program.
Fred Bonner’s recent article has led me to conclude that it is time to realize that the red wolf restoration program is a failure. When I first learned about the program in the mid 90’s I thought it was a wonderful idea. Little did I realize that the genetic strains that were purported to be red wolves may not have been true red wolves at all but rather a hybrid.
Since the “red wolf” program began, the environment into which the “red wolf” was introduced has changed dramatically due to the expansion of the coyote population. Coyotes have expanded their territories and populations dramatically over the last 100 years increasing their ranges and populations from the western plains states to all other states on the continent. Along with their their expansion in territory and growth in numbers they have increased in size by as much as 25% through crossbreeding with wolves. The expansion of the coyote range also includes major US cities such as Chicago and Washington, DC and many other urban areas where there are thriving coyote populations.
The “red wolf”, in the existing environment, and with its population of 100 or less, has little chance of maintaining itself when it will readily crossbreed with the coyote population. In a few generations the “red wolf” will inter-breed itself out of existence and be absorbed into the larger coyote population. This is called evolution. In the end Mother Nature will prevail.
Given the current circumstances, attempting to revive the “red wolf” seems to me to be fool’s errand. Nature’s deck is clearly stacked against the survival of the “red wolf”. Man’s meager efforts at intervention can do little to prevent the absorption of the “red wolf” into the coyote population. The only interests that seem to benefit from the continuation of the program are those associated with the management of the program and those wishing to use the restoration of the “red wolf” issue to advance their anti-hunting agenda.
 

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
Let’s stop wasting time, energy and money on the “red wolf” program.
Fred Bonner’s recent article has led me to conclude that it is time to realize that the red wolf restoration program is a failure. When I first learned about the program in the mid 90’s I thought it was a wonderful idea. Little did I realize that the genetic strains that were purported to be red wolves may not have been true red wolves at all but rather a hybrid.
Since the “red wolf” program began, the environment into which the “red wolf” was introduced has changed dramatically due to the expansion of the coyote population. Coyotes have expanded their territories and populations dramatically over the last 100 years increasing their ranges and populations from the western plains states to all other states on the continent. Along with their their expansion in territory and growth in numbers they have increased in size by as much as 25% through crossbreeding with wolves. The expansion of the coyote range also includes major US cities such as Chicago and Washington, DC and many other urban areas where there are thriving coyote populations.
The “red wolf”, in the existing environment, and with its population of 100 or less, has little chance of maintaining itself when it will readily crossbreed with the coyote population. In a few generations the “red wolf” will inter-breed itself out of existence and be absorbed into the larger coyote population. This is called evolution. In the end Mother Nature will prevail.
Given the current circumstances, attempting to revive the “red wolf” seems to me to be fool’s errand. Nature’s deck is clearly stacked against the survival of the “red wolf”. Man’s meager efforts at intervention can do little to prevent the absorption of the “red wolf” into the coyote population. The only interests that seem to benefit from the continuation of the program are those associated with the management of the program and those wishing to use the restoration of the “red wolf” issue to advance their anti-hunting agenda.

In other words, the coyote eradicated the so called red wolf, not man.
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
Could care less what it is......if it shows itself on my farm, it is going to get shot...........
 

Jett

Ten Pointer
PROGRESS!!!!

Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come!!!


Wolfwatcher (FACEBOOK)
December 7

Correction, WCC Red Wolf M1804 will not be released in North Carolina, as we earlier reported.

He is headed to St. Vincent National Wildlife Refuge, an island off the coast of Florida. There he will hopefully establish a romantic relationship with a female red wolf living there. The public can go to St. Vincent, but access and use are strictly limited.

There is little danger that M1804 will come to any harm from human hands - or guns.

We apologize for the incorrect information


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Cesur Demir, Jenny Ogrady, Sparkles Tracie Totten and 2,034 others like this.
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Diana Pincombe glad to read this. the first one had me totally confused.

December 7 at 7:46pm
Ingrid McIntosh Much better than coming here to NC where too many of our red wolves are being shot during night-time coyote hunting. A shame.
December 7 at 7:56pm via mobile

https://www.facebook.com/wolfwatcher.org
 

nchunter

Twelve Pointer
I don't live in the area and haven't paid much attention to the issue. After looking at this thread I did a little research.
Is this correct?
Based on scientific studies there is no such thing as a red wolf. They all have coyote DNA.
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Correct, nchunter. The strongest true Eastern gray wolf DNA ever to be recovered from this hybrid is < 20%. On average, the "red wolf" exhibits over 85% coyote DNA. The "red wolf" that was a gray wolf/eastern gray wolf cross was declared extinct in the wild in 1980. It's always been a hybrid.......

><>
 

bryguy

Old Mossy Horns
PROGRESS!!!!

Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come!!!


Wolfwatcher (FACEBOOK)
December 7

Correction, WCC Red Wolf M1804 will not be released in North Carolina, as we earlier reported.

He is headed to St. Vincent National Wildlife Refuge, an island off the coast of Florida. There he will hopefully establish a romantic relationship with a female red wolf living there. The public can go to St. Vincent, but access and use are strictly limited.

There is little danger that M1804 will come to any harm from human hands - or guns.

We apologize for the incorrect information


402Like · Comment · Share

Cesur Demir, Jenny Ogrady, Sparkles Tracie Totten and 2,034 others like this.
52 of 152
View previous comments
Diana Pincombe glad to read this. the first one had me totally confused.

December 7 at 7:46pm
Ingrid McIntosh Much better than coming here to NC where too many of our red wolves are being shot during night-time coyote hunting. A shame.
December 7 at 7:56pm via mobile

https://www.facebook.com/wolfwatcher.org

you guys read any of the comments on that page? those people are typical of the 'tolerance' displayed by those on the left......freaking idiots....
 

nchunter

Twelve Pointer
Correct, nchunter. The strongest true Eastern gray wolf DNA ever to be recovered from this hybrid is < 20%. On average, the "red wolf" exhibits over 85% coyote DNA. The "red wolf" that was a gray wolf/eastern gray wolf cross was declared extinct in the wild in 1980. It's always been a hybrid.......

><>

Thanks for the conformation.
Par for the course for these type of groups. I saw how science and honesty was thrown out the window during the lawsuits and "negotiations" over the birds.
Hope this deal turns out better.
 

Jett

Ten Pointer
Fellow sportsmen,

I sincerely thank you for your help. We are making progress in this grass roots effort. We are up against significant outside forces who do not even live in our State/Country and who do nothing to support wildlife in NC. Please contact the below commissioners and remind them that we are the true conservationists and stake holders.

North Carolina's 1,631,000 Hunters and Fisherman spend "2.3 Billion" Annually (2011) and contribute far more to Wildlife Conservation than any other group or organization. The North Carolina Sportsman spends $6.3 Million per day, of that $1.2 Billion, Annually are Salaries and Wages, $280 Million in Federal Taxes and $249 Million fund State / Local Taxes. This equates to a ripple effect of $3.7 Billion Dollars&#8230; here in North Carolina.


Beaufort County Commissioners email addresses:

hrichardsonpa@embarqmail.com, langleyspeak@suddenlink.net, stan@standeatherage.com, edbooth@embarqmail.com, alklemm@theklemms.com, rbelcher1@suddenlink.net, garylbrinn@gmail.com;

Dare County Commissioners:

Woodard@darenc.com, jshea@darenc.com, maxd@darenc.com, vtillett@darenc.com, allenb@darenc.com, richardj@darenc.com, warrenj@darenc.com;

Hyde County Commissioners:

Bsswindell@yahoo.com, jeanmincey@yahoo.com, middletownfarms@embarqmail.com, adtunnell@coastalnet.com, ansonbyrd@gmail.com;

Tyrrell County Commissioners:

c.willis@tyrrellcounty.net, n.everett@tyrrellcounty.net, l.hill@tyrrellcounty.net, l.spivey@tyrrellcounty.net, thomassp@earthlink.net;

Washington County Commissioners:

sextonfarms@embarqmail.com, d.colephelps@gmail.com, rmac18@hotmail.com, manningfarms@gotricounty.com, traceyj204@gmail.com;

North Carolina Wildlife Resource Commissioners:

mitchstclair@suddenlink.net, dslaughi@aol.com, coley@bpropnc.com, tom.berry@berico.com, johnc@sboil.com, garry.spence@ncwildlife.org, Richard.edwards@ncwildlife.org, davidwhoylejr@gmail.com, ray.clifton@ncwildlife.org, wes@seegarsfence.com, joe@enceechemical.com, rwhite@mindspring.com, BSkinner3@aol.com, hayden.rogers@ncwildlife.org, druffin@triad.rr.com, jcogdell@forkstables.com, timothy.spear@ncwildlife.org, tfonville@fmrealty.com, Tom.berry@berico.com, john.clark@sampsonbladen.com, david.cobb@ncwildlife.org, mallory.martin@ncwildlife.org, gordon.myers@ncwildlife.org;
 
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Jett

Ten Pointer
Guys,

I just sent this email to Leo (USFWS) and Gordon (NCWRC). It seems there is a call to do further research on this red wolf program. I also stumbled onto data that may help them fight the SELC. Read the bottom PDF link and you will see what this ridiculous Red Wolf effort is all about!!!!!!!!


Gordon and Leo,

Below is plenty of information to use in the SELC law suit. It still baffles me that anyone can recommend spending more money for research of the red wolf dilemma in NC!!! The program has failed as predicted by the red wolf biologists in this 1999 report. If you can use Google, you will quickly find that the red wolves/hybridization issue has been acknowledged and researched since the very beginning of the Red Wolf program. This research has kept the red wolf biologists employed for decades. It is time it is STOPPED!

Most important in this report is that the modeling done in 1999 has proven to be true. Not good news for Derb Carter and SELC is the fact that the decline in breeding pairs was predicted and is a result of hybridization/coyotes and not hunters killing coyotes. In fact this study by the Red Wolf guys recommends killing all coyotes in the recovery area and even possibly fencing off the Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge.

Hope this helps with your lawsuit!
We are depending on you.

Jett Ferebee

http://www.cbsg.org/sites/cbsg.org/files/documents/Red Wolf PHVA (1999).pdf
 
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Jett

Ten Pointer
Since probably few want to read the above referenced 90+ page document, here are a few relevant quotes:

Kill coyotes and non-wolf canids in Dare, Hyde
, Tyrrell, Washington, and Beaufort Counties
(in that order of priority)

the question was asked, &#8220;Can the red wolf be recovered even under the best of conditions?&#8221; It
appears from recent data that current hybridizati
on levels are already unsustainable in terms of
maintaining the current red wolf genotype.

It
may be difficult to save something (i.e., the red wo
lf) that might not be considered natural. He
described the movement of coyotes across the co
untry and argued that we no longer had true red
wolves or true coyotes --- they are part coyo
te/wolves and red wolf/coyotes.

One proposal: Fence the Alligator
River area.

as the frequency of coyotes
increases relative to red wolves, fewer female red
wolves will successfully
breed in a given year.

If the proportion of adult
females declines by 50% over the first 50 year
s of the simulation, the population begins to
decline after an initial rapid growth phase through the first twenty years of the simulation (Figure
2). This population decline results from the d
ecrease in the proportion of successful female
breeders to a level below the original 50% leve
l that is demographically unsustainable.

As increasingly more coyotes
encroach upon red wolf habitat, the increasing
frequency of matings between the two species wi
ll decrease the reproductiv
e output of &#8220;true&#8221; red
wolves to the point that the rate
of red wolf replacement is not
of sufficient magnitude to offset
natural (and human-mediated) mortality.

2. Lethal control of coyotes and non-wolf canids.
A. Kill coyotes and non-wolf canids in Dare
, Hyde, Tyrrell, Washington, and Beaufort
Counties (in that order of priority) with

Decisions for revision, rescheduling, or di
scontinuation of programme where necessary.
 
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