Maine politicians to debate bill that would require antler restrictions

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
And killing four bucks on a tract is not going to hurt nearly as much as killing four does on the same tract. Without does, there is no deer herd.

True. But I like to trip over bucks in terms of population, too. :) Why make the does wait so long to be tended to?
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Let's not kid around: a couple families on a small tract out to meet their limit can negatively impact every other tract around them. Not only would QDM be impossible, but seeing deer would be challenging for someone not even qdm minded.

If each hunter thought in terms of not killing too many deer for the size of the land they hunt, all types of hunters would benefit. Deer would benefit. I know some will hate me for saying this but if the limit is four bucks, that doesn't mean its good to kill four on the same tract of land under 300 acres. I can't see how that's good for the deer herd or your neighbor who hunts. IMO.

Which is one reason some hunters lobby states to enact lower buck limits.

Since some hunters just can't police themselves and act like game hogs, everyone else around them suffers.

Deer don't follow property lines.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Which habitat in each of those states are you personally familiar with? What improvement was made? Educate me please, I've personally hunted 8 of the 9 states you've listed and on a whole 3 of those have consistently better Hunting than NC offers. How are you rating success? How many of these states have you hunted? Where have you hunted in NC? What is your base line for Trophy Hunting, what's your personal best deer?

12 pointer.

No, a lot of those states I have not hunted. But they do have WMAs/game lands the biologists admit are managed for older age class and/or bigger antlered bucks.

Heck Georgia calls theres "Quality Buck Management Areas." No subtlety there.
 

tra_cline

Ten Pointer
Contributor
Which habitat in each of those states are you personally familiar with? What improvement was made? Educate me please, I've personally hunted 8 of the 9 states you've listed and on a whole 3 of those have consistently better Hunting than NC offers. How are you rating success? How many of these states have you hunted? Where have you hunted in NC? What is your base line for Trophy Hunting, what's your personal best deer?
CRC would you please answer these questions so I can understand your view point. You come across as having little to no personal experience or knowledge
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I answered them above.

Rating success on what, WMAs with APRs?

Habitat on those WMAs like food plots and prescribed burns?

No idea. I'm guessing habitat management crews work on improving the habitat on those properties just like is done on most game lands in NC.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I've seen the effects of statewide APRs in Pennsylvania and they have been very positive.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Interesting article on APRs enacted on the Crackneck WMA in South Carolina

This was done for two reasons. First, long term data collection indicated that 60 percent of the buck harvest was composed of young animals (fawns and 1½ year olds). This greatly reduced the opportunity to harvest mature bucks. Secondly, during the 2009 season, deer hunters were allowed to vote on whether they wanted to continue with no restrictions on buck size or whether they preferred a more selective harvest. Over 78 percent of hunters preferred the quality deer management option. The restrictions will be enforced during all methods of deer hunting this fall (archery, primitive weapons, and guns).

So hunters using the Crackerneck WMA preferred APRs over no APRs?

http://thetandd.com/sports/outdoors...cle_52fad62e-c7ff-11df-a68f-001cc4c002e0.html
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
A couple families can kill A LOT of deer legally. If the family has a lot of hunters and/or they buy extra tags, they don't have to poach to put a big hurt on the local population, believe me The same for a club that invites friends. Six deer per, plus extra doe tags can add up to a heck of a lot of deer.

I ate my tags this year, like I did 2 years ago. Like a lot of other places, the deer population took a bad hit recently. All I was seeing all season long were 2 young does, 3 fawns, and 2 young bucks. Guess what? By the end of the season all I was seeing were the 3 fawns. And I was relieved that at least they let those three live (assuming they were seeing them -- and I'm not at all sure of that).

The rest of your quote, I agree with.

And I'm not trying to make a case for more regulation. I was just stating a fact that some folks seem to not want to believe. What one does on their land sure as heck CAN and DOES affect other folks' hunting, depending on how "drastic" their behavior. No, shooting a young buck or doe or fawn here or there is probably not going to amount to anything. The problem is, like a lot of things, some folks just seem to have to take things to the extreme.

Most families (households) only have 1 or 2 people who actually hunt. Most hunters don't tag out. I'm not saying you're wrong about your neighbors, but they would be outliers, not the norm. I know what it's like to have crappy neighbors. I get it. Really, I do. I just prefer to make my own decisions when hunting.
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
Most families (households) only have 1 or 2 people who actually hunt. Most hunters don't tag out. I'm not saying you're wrong about your neighbors, but they would be outliers, not the norm. I know what it's like to have crappy neighbors. I get it. Really, I do. I just prefer to make my own decisions when hunting.
My neighbors aren't most families. Two hundred yards away, four people who hunt, plus they invite friends and other kin. Hunting club 100 yards in the other direction on 50+/- acres. These 5+ fellows also invite friends and family onto their "palacial" lease. If the deer density is 35/ Sq mile, the killing in this area adds up quickly.

For those giving advice on how to kill a big buck, thanks. I think we already know it. In my case, I didn't buy my place so I could hunt elsewhere -- and if Killin a big un was THAT important to me, I would go elsewhere. It would just be kind of nice to see a few around here from time to time.

And back to my original point. Like it or not, what ya do and how ya hunt certainly DOES affect others. You may not care, and thats your right. But that little bit of justification in some folks minds is out the window.

And again, I am NOT advocating for any more restrictions, APRs or otherwise. Just making the one point ^ above.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
My neighbors aren't most families. Two hundred yards away, four people who hunt, plus they invite friends and other kin. Hunting club 100 yards in the other direction on 50+/- acres. These 5+ fellows also invite friends and family onto their "palacial" lease. If the deer density is 35/ Sq mile, the killing in this area adds up quickly.

For those giving advice on how to kill a big buck, thanks. I think we already know it. In my case, I didn't buy my place so I could hunt elsewhere -- and if Killin a big un was THAT important to me, I would go elsewhere. It would just be kind of nice to see a few around here from time to time.

And back to my original point. Like it or not, what ya do and how ya hunt certainly DOES affect others. You may not care, and thats your right. But that little bit of justification in some folks minds is out the window.

And again, I am NOT advocating for any more restrictions, APRs or otherwise. Just making the one point ^ above.

I'm not saying neighbors don't have an effect, but yours and mine are the exception and not the rule.
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
My neighbors aren't most families. Two hundred yards away, four people who hunt, plus they invite friends and other kin. Hunting club 100 yards in the other direction on 50+/- acres. These 5+ fellows also invite friends and family onto their "palacial" lease. If the deer density is 35/ Sq mile, the killing in this area adds up quickly.

For those giving advice on how to kill a big buck, thanks. I think we already know it. In my case, I didn't buy my place so I could hunt elsewhere -- and if Killin a big un was THAT important to me, I would go elsewhere. It would just be kind of nice to see a few around here from time to time.

And back to my original point. Like it or not, what ya do and how ya hunt certainly DOES affect others. You may not care, and thats your right. But that little bit of justification in some folks minds is out the window.

And again, I am NOT advocating for any more restrictions, APRs or otherwise. Just making the one point ^ above.

Good post.
 

NCGunDude

Eight Pointer
Let's see, 22K posts over 10 years is 2,200 posts per year, which is 6 posts per day, every day for 10 years.

And not one single thing worthwhile contributed over those 10 years, that's impressive!
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Let's see, 22K posts over 10 years is 2,200 posts per year, which is 6 posts per day, every day for 10 years.

And not one single thing worthwhile contributed over those 10 years, that's impressive!

be fair,,,,,,about every year or so he has one or two!!
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
I enjoy the discussion, honestly. We have an ar at the club. I am the newest member so i dont make waves. Six points or better. Its flawed as hell but i aint running things. Just happy to be a member. Waited several years for an opening.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I enjoy the discussion, honestly. We have an ar at the club. I am the newest member so i dont make waves. Six points or better. Its flawed as hell but i aint running things. Just happy to be a member. Waited several years for an opening.

How exactly is it flawed for your club?


Thanks
 

badlandbucks

Ten Pointer
How exactly is it flawed for your club?


Thanks
probably because a 6 points or better rule will do little to protect really nice yearling bucks with good potential. All it would do is protect spikes and forkhorns, while a basket racked 1 1/2 yr old 6 or 7 pt will get shot.

APRs only work if people understand the goal...older deer. A club that hunts based on age and not points will do much better...as mentioned earlier in the post, there are a lot of mature 6 and 7 pointers that are studs, but would be off limits in a club with an 8 pt minimum. I'll shoot a 5 year old 6 point and let a 2 year old 10 point walk every day of the week.
 

Greg

Old Mossy Horns
Yep ^^. If you want to protect YOUNG deer, ya need to be able to recognize a young deer.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
probably because a 6 points or better rule will do little to protect really nice yearling bucks with good potential. All it would do is protect spikes and forkhorns, while a basket racked 1 1/2 yr old 6 or 7 pt will get shot.

APRs only work if people understand the goal...older deer. A club that hunts based on age and not points will do much better...as mentioned earlier in the post, there are a lot of mature 6 and 7 pointers that are studs, but would be off limits in a club with an 8 pt minimum. I'll shoot a 5 year old 6 point and let a 2 year old 10 point walk every day of the week.

As you said, it's much more effective to teach people to age on the hoof. Problem is that you have to have people willing to learn.
 
Yeah do not change any rules for the better , leave them the same so nothing will change...That is the reason I hunt more in Ohio,and I am planning on moving there when I retire..
 
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