Bill would require NCWRC to control invasive species

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
INVASIVE SERIES MANAGEMENT TO PRESERVE ECOSYSTEM DIVERSITY

19 SECTION 7.(a) G.S. 113-129(10a) is recodified as G.S. 113-129(10b).

20 SECTION 7.(b) G.S. 113-129, as amended by subsection (a) of this section, is
21 amended by adding a new subdivision to read:
22 "(10a) Invasive species. – Any of the following:
23 a. Brown tree snake (Boiga irregularis).
24 b. Bullfrog (Lithobates catesbeianus).
25 c. Burmese python (Python molurus bivittatus).
26 d. Coyote (Canis latrans).
27 e. European starling (Sturnus vulgaris).
28 f. Feral swine (Sus scrofa).
29 g. House sparrow (Passer domesticus).
30 h. Nutria (Myocastor coypus).
31 i. Red fox (Vulpes vulpes)."

32 SECTION 7.(c) Article 22 of Chapter 113 of the General Statutes is amended by
33 adding a new section to read:
34 "§ 113-292.1. Control of invasive species.
35 (a) The General Assembly finds that invasive species present a significant threat to
36 ecosystems, agriculture, and private property across the State and that the hunting and trapping
37 of those species is a practical and cost-effective solution to controlling these populations.
38 (b) The Wildlife Resources Commission shall issue rules establishing open seasons and
39 manner of take requirements in all 100 counties of the State for all invasive species that the
40 Commission determines to be game animals or game birds. Seasons established under this
41 subsection shall maximize opportunities for hunters and trappers to take invasive species.
42 (c) With respect to invasive species that the Wildlife Resources Commission finds are
43 not game animals or game birds, the Commission shall develop programs to encourage control
44 of those species by State agencies, local governments, private landowners, hunters, and
45 trappers.
46 (d) Any local acts in conflict with the provisions of this section are repealed to the
47 extent of the conflict."
48


49 GENERAL PROVISIONS
General Assembly Of North Carolina Session 2017
Page 6 DRS45301-MH-56 [v.16] (02/17)

1 SECTION 8.(a) If any section or provision of this act is declared unconstitutional
2 or invalid by the courts, it does not affect the validity of this act as a whole or any part other
3 than the part declared to be unconstitutional or invalid.

4 SECTION 8.(b) Except as otherwise provided, this act is effective when it
5 becomes law

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2017/Bills/Senate/PDF/S434v0.pdf
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
The GA is taking more and more decision-making power from the NCWRC, and mandating methods to deal with complex issues the GA only superficially understands.
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
Ultimately you may see funds diverted from important things to unimportant things. If history is any indicator we may actually see some of these species spread faster. There's many unintended consequences anytime you start mandating things.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
it's not that bad of a change,,,,,

it says that the NCWRC will establish what is needed for each of the species,,,,some with the label game animal (with seasons, bag limits, etc) and some as truly invasive they would establish appropriate programs to control them

I see it as actually giving MORE authority to the NCWRC, not taking it away ( as in the case of fox),,,,,,

but agree - red fox will likely come off the list,,,
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
I don't see where it mandates the WRC to control invasive species. That's impossible. I'd like to see the management plan for how they will eradicate house sparrows.

I believe that was a misleading thread title.

What I read it to say is that hunting and trapping is a cost-effective solution (i.e. free to the state) for controlling some of these species. Therefore, the state should declare an open season for any invasive game species so that hunters and trappers can help take care of the problem. For non-game they are to encourage the control by other agencies, governments and private citizens.

Seems to me it just mandates the WRC quit protecting invasive species.
 
Last edited:

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
it's not that bad of a change,,,,,

it says that the NCWRC will establish what is needed for each of the species,,,,some with the label game animal (with seasons, bag limits, etc) and some as truly invasive they would establish appropriate programs to control them

I see it as actually giving MORE authority to the NCWRC, not taking it away ( as in the case of fox),,,,,,

but agree - red fox will likely come off the list,,,

Most red fox in NC are native and hardly invasive.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
I don't see where it mandates the WRC to control invasive species. That's impossible. I'd like to see the management plan for how they will eradicate house sparrows.

I believe that was a misleading thread title.

What I read it to say is that hunting and trapping is a cost-effective solution (i.e. free to the state) for controlling some of these species. Therefore, the state should declare an open season for any invasive game species so that hunters and trappers can help take care of the problem. For non-game they are to encourage the control by other agencies, governments and private citizens.

Seems to me it just mandates the WRC quit protecting invasive species.

The Wildlife Resources Commission shall issue rules establishing open seasons and
manner of take requirements in all 100 counties of the State for all invasive species that the
Commission determines to be game animals or game birds.

The word "shall" is used. Not "may" but "shall".
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
it's not that bad of a change,,,,,

it says that the NCWRC will establish what is needed for each of the species,,,,some with the label game animal (with seasons, bag limits, etc) and some as truly invasive they would establish appropriate programs to control them

I see it as actually giving MORE authority to the NCWRC, not taking it away ( as in the case of fox),,,,,,

but agree - red fox will likely come off the list,,,

I'd rather just see them reclass the fox as a furbearer/game animal like raccoons, opossums, and bobcats already are. Don't need a whole new statute....
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
I don't see where it mandates the WRC to control invasive species. That's impossible. I'd like to see the management plan for how they will eradicate house sparrows.

I believe that was a misleading thread title.

What I read it to say is that hunting and trapping is a cost-effective solution (i.e. free to the state) for controlling some of these species. Therefore, the state should declare an open season for any invasive game species so that hunters and trappers can help take care of the problem. For non-game they are to encourage the control by other agencies, governments and private citizens.

Seems to me it just mandates the WRC quit protecting invasive species.

The Wildlife Resources Commission shall issue rules establishing open seasons and
39 manner of take requirements in all 100 counties of the State for all invasive species that the
40 Commission determines to be game animals or game birds. Seasons established under this
41 subsection shall maximize opportunities for hunters and trappers to take invasive species.

42 (c) With respect to invasive species that the Wildlife Resources Commission finds are
43 not game animals or game birds, the Commission shall develop programs to encourage control
44 of those species
by State agencies, local governments, private landowners, hunters, and
45 trappers.

See what's in bold. Sometimes (as TN found out the hard way) the best way to get rid of an invasive species is NOT to allow hunting, but to deal with it via depredation permits. A statute that says you "shall" does not leave flexibility there in my understanding. There's a lot more to this than you see on the surface.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
I'd rather just see them reclass the fox as a furbearer/game animal like raccoons, opossums, and bobcats already are. Don't need a whole new statute....

reference fox - I agree with you

reference invasives - I don't see where this takes control away from NCWRC - they can work to control them through depredation permits, etc - the SHALL just means they will work with others

and to be accurate - it's not a new statute, but modifications to current statutes,,,,,,
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
No red fox in NC is native. Invasive can be argued on both sides, but the red fox is not native to any part of the southeast.

American red foxes are genetically distinctive from their Eurasian counterparts (Aubry et al., 2009; Frey 2013). Despite claims of historical translocations from Europe, modern red fox populations in the United States’ southeastern region have been shown to be native to North America (Statham et al., 2012). DNA comparisons show that the eastern American red fox is closely related to native populations in Canada and the northeastern region of the United States and is therefore the result of natural range expansions and not an invasive species from Europe as was previously thought (Statham et al., 2012).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_red_fox

Genetic studies are showing some of the red fox in the SE US are indeed native
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Most red fox in NC are native and hardly invasive.

depends on your definition of native,,,,,,they are no more "native" than the coyote,,,,both got here through territorial expansion AFTER man started messing with the vegetative terrain,,,,,,,
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_red_fox

Genetic studies are showing some of the red fox in the SE US are indeed native

You're trying to refute me with wikipedia? Really? Colonists bringing them down from New England because they didn't like running gray fox doesn't constitute a "natural range expansion". Yes, there were red fox in Canada and New England. Not in the southeast. If you go back and actually read the Journal of Mammalogy article they reference you'll see that even though they likely didn't come from Europe they did follow the colonists down from New England. So whether they caught them in Pennsylvania and set them out down here or they just followed the trail of new farms they still "invaded" the southeast during colonial times. Most biologists in North America don't usually consider the red fox invasive (with exceptions being on islands such as the Aleutian island chain in Alaska), they also aren't considered native. If you want to be technical the term that is used is naturalized. It basically means "they aren't native but they've been here long enough that everything's adapted to them and there's no way we could eradicate them if we wanted to...."
 
Last edited:

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
depends on your definition of native,,,,,,they are no more "native" than the coyote,,,,both got here through territorial expansion AFTER man started messing with the vegetative terrain,,,,,,,

Apparently Woodmoose read the same wikipedia article that CRC did. The difference is that Woodmoose actually understood what was written.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
https://www.ourstate.com/our-red-fox/

But recent DNA work has me humbled. Scientists analyzing the genetic fingerprints of red foxes found not a drop, so to speak, of European blood in the red foxes of the Southeast.

Turns out that the red fox most likely made its way here from the boreal and western mountain regions of North America.

Or they could have been native all along to certain portions of the eastern seaboard.

Either way they are not European imports.
 
Last edited:

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Apparently Woodmoose read the same wikipedia article that CRC did. The difference is that Woodmoose actually understood what was written.

no sir - I don't generally use Wikipedia - I read the information from the American Society of Mammalogists,,,,,,,but thanks for lumping me without knowing,,,,,,

http://www.mammalogy.org/articles/origin-recently-established-red-fox-populations-united-states-translocations-or-natural-ran

I may not be a school trained scientist,,,but I am not a "google boy" either - I KNOW where to look for real, scientific information,,,,,,,

plus I did raise two PhDs in the sciences,,,,maybe some rubbed off,,,,,,
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
You're trying to refute me with wikipedia? Really? Colonists bringing them down from New England because they didn't like running gray fox doesn't constitute a "natural range expansion". Yes, there were red fox in Canada and New England. Not in the southeast. If you go back and actually read the Journal of Mammalogy article they reference you'll see that even though they likely didn't come from Europe they did follow the colonists down from New England. So whether they caught them in Pennsylvania and set them out down here or they just followed the trail of new farms they still "invaded" the southeast during colonial times. Most biologists in North America don't usually consider the red fox invasive (with exceptions being on islands such as the Aleutian island chain in Alaska), they also aren't considered native. If you want to be technical the term that is used is naturalized. It basically means "they aren't native but they've been here long enough that everything's adapted to them and there's no way we could eradicate them if we wanted to...."


correct data,,,,thank you Sir,,,,,,,,,
 

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
no sir - I don't generally use Wikipedia - I read the information from the American Society of Mammalogists,,,,,,,but thanks for lumping me without knowing,,,,,,

http://www.mammalogy.org/articles/origin-recently-established-red-fox-populations-united-states-translocations-or-natural-ran

I may not be a school trained scientist,,,but I am not a "google boy" either - I KNOW where to look for real, scientific information,,,,,,,

plus I did raise two PhDs in the sciences,,,,maybe some rubbed off,,,,,,

hahaha, Wikipedia can be a great resource, but you have to take it with a grain of salt since literally anybody can post there. I've been known to use it to locate basic and background source material via their citations. Google Scholar is a fantastic resource as well.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Other than your own source saying outright that they were absent from the southeast prior to colonization, yeah, sure....

"Reportedly" absent according to the literature.

Either way, the red fox showed up due to range expansion not stocking like most coyotes and they showed up sometime in or before the 19th Century. George Washington was chasing fox at Mt Vernon before he was president. But those were probably gray fox.

Coyotes started showing up the in 1950s when they were being released for chasing purposes.
 
Last edited:

Ldsoldier

Old Mossy Horns
"Reportedly" absent according to the literature.

Either way, the red fox showed up due to range expansion not stocking like most coyotes and they showed up sometime in or before the 19th Century.

Coyotes started showing up the in 1950s when they were being released for chasing purposes.

If you really want to go that route it's the position of most biologists that the coyote expansion has been mostly natural as well. That while stockings/escapes of pens have contributed to it, those have been mostly localized as opposed to widespread. Also remember, natural range expansion doesn't make a critter "native". It just means they invaded naturally instead of being introduced by man. Even with that definition the red fox introduction to the southeast was at the least facilitated indirectly by man as the colonists created more and more habitat by leveling forests and planting crops. Any way you make this argument the red fox comes down on the "nonnative" side.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Regardless of origin or native or non native I think we agree the WRC should have control over fox seasons.
 
Last edited:
Top