Now here's two bills worth looking at ...

bte0816

Eight Pointer
I would hate to see the October season go away. My swamp was so full of mallards a few years ago during the Oct season you could walk across them. It would have been a shame if I just had to watch them while bow hunting.

If you go from 6 days a week to 7 days a week of hunting you drop from having 10 weeks to hunt to 8 and a half. I feel like the birds having a day off also keeps them around longer than if they are getting pressured every single day.
 

Downeast

Twelve Pointer
I would support Sunday hunting for waterfowl. It's a real PITA to drive a couple of hours to only hunt one day a week (Saturday). Believe it or not there are duck hunters out there that aren't filthy rich and have to work 5 days a week.
 

JONOV

Twelve Pointer
I would support Sunday hunting for waterfowl. It's a real PITA to drive a couple of hours to only hunt one day a week (Saturday). Believe it or not there are duck hunters out there that aren't filthy rich and have to work 5 days a week.

That's my feeling on the whole Sunday hunting thing.
 

Hydemarsh

Six Pointer
More convinced all the time that NC is NOT a Sportsman friendly state....

You are so right when it comes to duck hunting and fishing. the leadership of the legislature , DMF & WRC sides with a wealthy few on duck hunting and put the parochial interest of a few commercial fishermen over the interest of the state's citizens when it comes to managing the states's public waters.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
https://www.ammoland.com/2017/07/no...s-advances-legislation-hunters/#axzz4lu858apw

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/07/no...s-advances-legislation-hunters/#ixzz4luE5gv7A
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Additionally, HB 559 would remove the prohibition against hunting migratory birds contingent on authorization by proclamation or rules adopted by the NCWRC following the completion of a study conducted by the NCWRC that examines the biological, economic, social, and resource management impacts of allowing migratory bird hunting on Sundays.

Finally, the legislation would change the method by which counties could prohibit Sunday hunting by requiring that a majority of voters in a county-wide election approve by referendum.
 

skydog

Guest
I strongly opposed SH for waterfowl here in Virginia and after a few years of it being in place, I still very much feel the same way.

It condensed the season to the point that we now miss out on any December migration and it's expedited the demise of some of the historically good, higher pressured waters in the state. VA and NC (and the entire east coast for that matter) have too few ducks and too many duck hunters. Adding another high pressured weekend day to the season can do nothing but hurt the quality of the hunting.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
I strongly opposed SH for waterfowl here in Virginia and after a few years of it being in place, I still very much feel the same way.

It condensed the season to the point that we now miss out on any December migration and it's expedited the demise of some of the historically good, higher pressured waters in the state. VA and NC (and the entire east coast for that matter) have too few ducks and too many duck hunters. Adding another high pressured weekend day to the season can do nothing but hurt the quality of the hunting.

Well, they could declare Tuesday and Wednesday as non-hunting days. That'll extend your season and take off hunting pressure from ducks for two days instead of one.
 

skydog

Guest
Well, they could declare Tuesday and Wednesday as non-hunting days. That'll extend your season and take off hunting pressure from ducks for two days instead of one.

....Not quite. I know you're being a bit sarcastic, but that would count as a split, which the Feds limit.

People are free to be in favor of SH for waterfowl if they think the pros outweigh the cons. But there definitely are plenty of cons...especially in the duck-less atlantic flyway. I don't hunt much in NC anymore so I don't have a dog in this fight, just passing on my $0.02 from experience with it here. All I can do is shake my head now when my same buddies who lobbied for SH are now complaining about us missing a chunk of the migration thanks to the condensed season.
 
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Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
....Not quite. I know you're being a bit sarcastic, but that would count as a split, which the Feds limit.

Actually, I'm not being sarcastic. I generally find people that oppose SH for non-religious reasons to be people with flexible work schedules or retired folks who want more hunting to themselves. They have 5 days per week to hunt where as someone posted earlier there are duck hunters out there that aren't filthy rich and have to work 5 days a week. So if you cut 2 days from the middle of the week, the weekday hunters still have 3 days and the weekend hunters have 2 days. The ducks also benefit because they now have 2 days of not being shot at instead of 1. Everyone's a winner except for the weekday hunter that still has more hunting days than the weekend hunter. It's selfishness on the part of the weekday hunter. They want more days to themselves and more ducks for them to hunt.
 

skydog

Guest
Actually, I'm not being sarcastic. I generally find people that oppose SH for non-religious reasons to be people with flexible work schedules or retired folks who want more hunting to themselves. They have 5 days per week to hunt where as someone posted earlier there are duck hunters out there that aren't filthy rich and have to work 5 days a week. So if you cut 2 days from the middle of the week, the weekday hunters still have 3 days and the weekend hunters have 2 days. The ducks also benefit because they now have 2 days of not being shot at instead of 1. Everyone's a winner except for the weekday hunter that still has more hunting days than the weekend hunter. It's selfishness on the part of the weekday hunter. They want more days to themselves and more ducks for them to hunt.

First of all, I would be all for stretching the 60 days out longer by saying no hunting on Tues/Weds (or something like this). Unfortunately, the Feds wouldn't allow this because they would consider each weekday break to be a split and they only allow three splits in a season. This is a rule worth mentioning because people often make the argument you did without understanding this limitation.

I don't consider myself selfish or filthy rich. I prioritize duck hunting...it's my main hobby and vice as I tell my wife and employer. Most people get 2-4 weeks of vacation a year...adding Sunday hunting adds 8-10 days of additional hunting for those who can only hunt on the weekend. Most folks who complain about only being able to hunt the weekends decide to spend their vacation days not on hunting...that's fine if you want to spend two weeks a year at the beach or something, but I choose to use most of my vacation days during duck season.
 

shurshot

Ten Pointer
Skydog's right about the split. Can't have more than 3 per season. Would have to get Feds to change how they define "split".
Sunday hunting would would also have to stop at 9:30-12:30. I know, the best times are already over with and those that travel will need to get on the road anyway. Well there's also a lot of other hunters that know how to consistently kill late morning birds (done it for decades), so now that extra day has in essence become half a morning/day. Throw in the fact that one of my favorite places is right at that 500 yard church restriction so I wouldn't be able to hunt there either.

My point is everyone has their own personal "selfish" reasons as to why they like or dislike seasons, myself not withstanding . No way it's going to be fair to all, that's just a fact. We all are in control of our personal decision making, if you love hunting then make it a priority to find ways to take advantage of it (sick days, vacation, job change). Not everyone that hunts weekdays is filthy rich, guaranteed.
 

Gus

Six Pointer
Agree 100% with skydog and shurshot.
Condensing the season and losing 8-9 real, full, potentially productive days for the sake of hunting a couple of crummy, crowded hours on Suns. makes no sense to me. Enforcement on the hours should be interesting.
On the bright side this will push more ducks to the counties with sense enough to limit pressure with blind laws.
 

nchunter54

Guest
I had not heard about the Sunday duck hunting, have some mixed feelings. Not totally for or against it. I too still work Monday – Friday. I have not hunted the four day October season in years but understand that some do. It is a good time to introduce younger hunters to the sport without the cold weather conditions. I also do not hunt the second spilt much due to the lack of ducks. The most ducks we saw last season were the two youth Saturdays. I would like for the 60 days to go into February in hope of larger waterfowl numbers. Not sure how that can happen by including an extra day to the hunting week.

Don
 
I had not heard about the Sunday duck hunting, have some mixed feelings. Not totally for or against it. I too still work Monday – Friday. I have not hunted the four day October season in years but understand that some do. It is a good time to introduce younger hunters to the sport without the cold weather conditions. I also do not hunt the second spilt much due to the lack of ducks. The most ducks we saw last season were the two youth Saturdays. I would like for the 60 days to go into February in hope of larger waterfowl numbers. Not sure how that can happen by including an extra day to the hunting week.

Don

That can't happen, period. Sunday hunting will not effect the regular season running into February. That is oustse the federal framework and good luck ever getting that changed. I've been hunting ducks since I was 7 and I have heard hunters talk about that change for almost three decades now...hasn't changed yet. What I have noticed over the years and I am by no means an expert, is that the ducks trickle south along the Atlantic coast and seem to move back north in mass. I have always seen more ducks as the season ends but then in about a week they're gone until next year. I believe they are moving north not south. You won't get the Feds to change the framework of the regular season to have it run into February.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
my .02 cents for what it is worth,,,,,,,

time to get with the rest of the world,,,,allow Sunday hunting,,,,,,,,

if the resource can't handle a weekend day of hunting, then shorten the season/bag limits like we had a while ago,,,,,,,,

but to not allow Sunday hunting because of the reasons I have heard is garbage (which all hover around "tradition" for the most part) - it's a day of the week and NC needs to step away from this one of the LAST vestiges of the Blue Laws,,,,,,
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
my .02 cents for what it is worth,,,,,,,

time to get with the rest of the world,,,,allow Sunday hunting,,,,,,,,

if the resource can't handle a weekend day of hunting, then shorten the season/bag limits like we had a while ago,,,,,,,,

but to not allow Sunday hunting because of the reasons I have heard is garbage (which all hover around "tradition" for the most part) - it's a day of the week and NC needs to step away from this one of the LAST vestiges of the Blue Laws,,,,,,

Reduction in bag limits would likely cause the Duck Dynasty crowd to decide its not worth the time, money and effort which would go a long ways to improving the sport for the rest of us.
 
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woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Reduction in bag limits would likely cause the Duck Dynasty crowd to decide its not worth the time, money and effort which would go a long ways to improving the sport for the rest of us.

you have discovered my selfish rationale!!!
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
As to Woodmoose's point the bag limits seem to be the same in states that allow SH and those that don't.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
As to Woodmoose's point the bag limits seem to be the same in states that allow SH and those that don't.


My point wasn't about bag limits,,,it was about folks worrying about the resource

The bag limit for waterfowl are set by the Feds by flyway,,,,states tend to follow
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
My point wasn't about bag limits,,,it was about folks worrying about the resource

The bag limit for waterfowl are set by the Feds by flyway,,,,states tend to follow

But if the Feds thought SH was detrimental to the resource would they not lower the bag limits for states that allow it (like SC)?
 

Gus

Six Pointer
Wiping out the resource is not the issue. Pushing the resource off of huntable public water (onto refuges, private impoundments, deep into inaccessible swamps or just the heck out of this area) due to overpressure (jr commanders, skybusters, incessant callers, posted up everywhere you turn) for two consecutive days is the issue imo.
 
Wiping out the resource is not the issue. Pushing the resource off of huntable public water (onto refuges, private impoundments, deep into inaccessible swamps or just the heck out of this area) due to overpressure (jr commanders, skybusters, incessant callers, posted up everywhere you turn) for two consecutive days is the issue imo.

So what you're saying should really happen is we should limit the total days of hunting to say...three, maybe four, per week? For example Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat? Not that I'm opposed to that, it would mean actual rest days for birds, including birds that are roosting/ loafing on public land. However, to say that allowing Sunday hunting is going to push the birds around anymore than hunting Monday- Saturday already does, is a little bit of a weak argument in my opinion. Is one day going to make that much of a difference?

My feeling is this goes back to what woodmoose was saying about tradition. I get it, I get it like most only think they understand. I was brought up in the tradition of Southern duck hunting but darn near every state has Sunday hunting as part of their tradition and it doesn't spread the birds around or ruin hunting. It is purely religious and has no basis in any form of scientific research, conservation, ecology, etc. The only problem with splitting up open days and spreading them out is the Feds consider it to be a split and there are only three splits allowed under the federal framework.

The only way to get rid of the juniors is to drop the season back to 30 days and the bag limit back to 3 birds. That may not even work. It is a popular sport and the good ol days of having an entire slough to yourself are over. Hunters will either adapt or spend their days bitching about other hunters. I just adapt and work harder than other hunters to get my birds. I'd rather do that than moan about others and try to live up the glory days again. Seems like it may shorten my life span and I have enough going on to have to worry about one more thing.
 
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Gus

Six Pointer
Who is talking about tradition or religion? Geez, this don't seem that complicated to me. Saturdays are an overcrowded circus on public waters. It seems logical that Sundays ( for half a morning, mind you, if that) will also be an overcrowded circus. Anyone with any degree of fowlin experience knows that consecutive days of heavy pressure moves out ducks. Doesn't matter what two days of the week, but mon-fri, naturally, are not the super high pressure days.
Every state is different. Is it possible that not having 2 consecutive,high pressure days per week all season helped keep higher numbers of ducks here, in turn contributing to NC harvesting more ducks than the other Atlantic Flyway states. Several of the Piedmont lakes are perfect examples of what happens to productive waters when overpressured.
If you disagree, fine, but don't try totell me I'm hiding some religious agenda.
You're duck hunting skills sound impressive indeed. Congrats
 
Who is talking about tradition or religion? Geez, this don't seem that complicated to me. Saturdays are an overcrowded circus on public waters. It seems logical that Sundays ( for half a morning, mind you, if that) will also be an overcrowded circus. Anyone with any degree of fowlin experience knows that consecutive days of heavy pressure moves out ducks. Doesn't matter what two days of the week, but mon-fri, naturally, are not the super high pressure days.
Every state is different. Is it possible that not having 2 consecutive,high pressure days per week all season helped keep higher numbers of ducks here, in turn contributing to NC harvesting more ducks than the other Atlantic Flyway states. Several of the Piedmont lakes are perfect examples of what happens to productive waters when overpressured.
If you disagree, fine, but don't try totell me I'm hiding some religious agenda.
You're duck hunting skills sound impressive indeed. Congrats

I didn't say that you were hiding a religious agenda, I said that the reason there is no Sunday hunting is purely religious and not based on any type of biology or real management strategy. I don't hunt on Sunday's cause you'll find me in church, so my reasons for not hunting are religious. There are more ducks killed in NC than other east coast states but also consider that most of those birds are killed in 5 counties. Four of those counties have blind laws that take away the rights of tax paying citizens to hunt public water...that's a different story altogether. Also, look at what type of birds are harvested and it may give some insight to those numbers. Most of those birds are bluebills, woodies and buffleheads. Look at other states such as New York and the harvest of mallards, Grey ducks and other puddle ducks is much higher. Could be that hunters in other states are more selective and don't shoot any old duck flying by or it could be not as many move this far south. Who knows really but simply basing a decision off numbers that don't paint the full picture is not really a sound management strategy either.

I don't believe that adding one day is going to disturb the birds any more than they already are. I suspect that if the biologists at NCWRC thought it was that this law wouldn't even be something worth talking about.

And yes, I have hunted ducks for a while now and had the privilege to be exposed to hunting in amazing places for most of those years but I simply use my experiences to shed some light on the conversation. I'm sure you have experiences that I don't and that I would live to have...much the same as just about every other person around. I don't think I'm better than anyone, just have some different perspective and insights.
 

Gus

Six Pointer
Yep, 4 of the top harvest counties in NC have blind laws that limit pressure. Apparently limiting pressure has a positive effect on duck harvest....
NC kills about 3 times the Gadwalls, and about twice as many mallards as NY.....
IMO biology and hunting quality take a back of the bus seat to what truly drives these decisions- money.
Who cares if there are no ducks or the sound looks like a Wal Mart parking lot. Money is being made and lowering limits/shortening seasons hurts business. It's always a business decision. Not that I think the biologists feel that way-they just don't have much say in it, particularly when 'economic opportunity' is put on the other side of the scale.
Pressure doesn't necessarily hurt overall duck numbers but sure hurts duck hunting. People think these huge numbers of ducks migrate in as soon as the season goes out. You and I know those ducks have been here most of the season. They simply retreated to NWR impoundments, DEEP swamp, or mid sound and feeding at night, for the season. Once they aren't getting shot at everytime they venture within 100yds of shore they go back to traditional areas where folks see them and think they just migrated in last night.
Besides the pressure factor, I also don't think trading 8-9 full hunting days for 8-9 half mornings makes sense. Truth is we don't know what hours we'll be allowed to hunt on Suns. It could end up no hunting 8am-12, or only after 12. We don't even know which days will be removed to allow for Suns. Just ram it through and figure out the details later, subject to which special interest group has the most pull.
I'll adapt and probably manage to beat down a few ducks
either way but I can't see this as being a positive for public duck hunting.
I appreciate your perspective, good luck this season.
 

skydog

Guest
Wiping out the resource is not the issue. Pushing the resource off of huntable public water (onto refuges, private impoundments, deep into inaccessible swamps or just the heck out of this area) due to overpressure (jr commanders, skybusters, incessant callers, posted up everywhere you turn) for two consecutive days is the issue imo.

^Ding ding ding. winner winner
 
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