"Patterning" Non-Ag, Nomadic, Low-Density, WNC Deer

PewPewPew

Button Buck
I've been scouting and running trail cameras for about a year now. I don't feel like I've scratched the surface on patterning WNC deer. It's all starting to feel very random to me.

Food- There are no Ag fields. There is an unimaginable amount of food sources spread out in the woods. There are enough oak trees that I'm still finding piles of uneaten acorns in April. Setting up on a food source sounds like a wild goose chase to me.

Water- Where I am, there is a seep, draw holding water, puddle, or river within 200 yards in any direction. I don't see water influencing deer movement.

Bedding- Finding bedding is very predictable. I've found dozen of beds on points and SMALL benches on hill sides. On any given point there could be 5-10 established beds. Is this a bedding area? Sure. Do deer bed on a certain point consistently? I don't think so. I've run trail cameras over top of beds for weeks at a time and found that any given bed is empty 99.5% of the time. I tend to think deer are not returning to the same bed. I also believe they might use a bed for an hour or two on move on, not an 8 hour daytime nap. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think this cover is a major factor in bedding. I've found the vast majority in open hardwoods with little undergrowth.

Funnels/trails- I've set out trail cameras on what I believed to be some pretty obvious funnels, and have been very disappointed. I'm still trying to find the "a deer HAS TO pass through here" to get to from point A to B funnel. I'm also finding that trails are used by every animal in the jungle. A beaten down "deer trail" is getting more coyote and raccoon traffic than it is deer traffic. To me, deer trails occur like contour lines on a topo map, every 25 feet.

I once heard someone say that WNC deer are nomadic and walk through every square inch of the woods. Drop some knowledge on me, before I start bashing my head on a wall trying to figure this out.
 

CRC

Old Mossy Horns
Some deer in WNC love corn piles on private land and will leave public land to eat at the corn pile.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
I've been scouting and running trail cameras for about a year now. I don't feel like I've scratched the surface on patterning WNC deer. It's all starting to feel very random to me.
Food- There are no Ag fields. There is an unimaginable amount of food sources spread out in the woods. There are enough oak trees that I'm still finding piles of uneaten acorns in April. Setting up on a food source sounds like a wild goose chase to me.
Water- Where I am, there is a seep, draw holding water, puddle, or river within 200 yards in any direction. I don't see water influencing deer movement.
Bedding- Finding bedding is very predictable. I've found dozen of beds on points and SMALL benches on hill sides. On any given point there could be 5-10 established beds. Is this a bedding area? Sure. Do deer bed on a certain point consistently? I don't think so. I've run trail cameras over top of beds for weeks at a time and found that any given bed is empty 99.5% of the time. I tend to think deer are not returning to the same bed. I also believe they might use a bed for an hour or two on move on, not an 8 hour daytime nap. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think this cover is a major factor in bedding. I've found the vast majority in open hardwoods with little undergrowth.
Funnels/trails- I've set out trail cameras on what I believed to be some pretty obvious funnels, and have been very disappointed. I'm still trying to find the "a deer HAS TO pass through here" to get to from point A to B funnel. I'm also finding that trails are used by every animal in the jungle. A beaten down "deer trail" is getting more coyote and raccoon traffic than it is deer traffic. To me, deer trails occur like contour lines on a topo map, every 25 feet.
I once heard someone say that WNC deer are nomadic and walk through every square inch of the woods. Drop some knowledge on me, before I start bashing my head on a wall trying to figure this out.

Yea you got it about right.
Food is everywhere, and cover is usually pretty close. They eat when they're hungry, and lay down when they're tired. Doesn't really matter where. It's not like a piece of private land where they have a "sanctuary" area and a feeding area. The whole place is a sanctuary and feeding area.

Water - I'm not a biologist, but I think deer get a big majority of their daily water intake through their browse, and not from actually drinking water. So again, no NEED to be anywhere in particular

Bed - See food. Most places I hunt you can expect to jump a deer on every square inch of the place. It's frustrating cause there's deer everywhere, and nowhere at the same time...

Trails - Same as above. They use whatever trail they feel like, or based on how the wind is that day...

Summary:
Transition zones work all season... But you have 14 different transition zones to start checking once season starts so you know whether to waste your time.
I hunted one holler on the side of a mountain 56 daylight hours this season starting in bow season. I can prolly count on one hand the number of deer I saw before 8:30 am or after 3pm...
Its just a little open holler where you can shoot about 100 yards, and there's laurel thickets 200 yards above and below, and small stands of white oaks 200 yards to the left and right.
Saw the same 8 four times starting in Sept before I got him killed in November. Each time he was on different trails, different elevations, and heading in different directions.
Finally got him down at 9:30 in the morning just cruising through the woods after thanksgiving.

Takes a lot of time and walking and wasted days hunting to figure some places out, but it can be fun and rewarding once you do.

Don't pigeonhole yourself into only hunting one little area unless you're confident that you've got it dialed in.
I've been hunting the mountain mentioned above since 2012 and it took me until this season to find the "best" spot......
 

Frostcat

Twelve Pointer
The thrill of hunting deer in the mountains. The acorns that you are finding now are for the most part bad, just the hulls. Food sources are the way I hunt mountain deer, but every fall will be different. A place that had deer last fall may have none this fall. Acorns are a great food source. Whit oak and chestnut oaks start dropping first and deer love them. Northern red oaks and black oaks will fall later with scarlet oaks dropping acorns last. Wild grapes are another food source to look for along with beech nuts. If you can find apple trees around old home places, they can be real deer magnets. With only a few deer on several hundred acres, or several thousand in the national forests, patterning them can be tough. But that's what I love about hunting mountain deer.
 

UncleFester

Old Mossy Horns
PPP,

Where in WNC are you located? I had to actually stop putting corn out because the deer were eating me out of house and home. When the hardwoods on my place were covered with acorns of several types this past season they were still eating 100+ pounds of corn in a matter of a few days. Finally stopped putting it out when they got to where they were packing away 200+ pounds in 5 days in just two spots. As for patterning I have several cameras out and they are pretty predictable here in Ellenboro, NC. Unfortunately for me they heavily travel one section that I'm wanting to put a pasture up. I'm adjusting the size/shape of this pasture to try and avoid changing that travel route too much for now.
 

PewPewPew

Button Buck
Yea you got it about right.
Food is everywhere, and cover is usually pretty close. They eat when they're hungry, and lay down when they're tired. Doesn't really matter where. It's not like a piece of private land where they have a "sanctuary" area and a feeding area. The whole place is a sanctuary and feeding area.

Water - I'm not a biologist, but I think deer get a big majority of their daily water intake through their browse, and not from actually drinking water. So again, no NEED to be anywhere in particular

Bed - See food. Most places I hunt you can expect to jump a deer on every square inch of the place. It's frustrating cause there's deer everywhere, and nowhere at the same time...

Trails - Same as above. They use whatever trail they feel like, or based on how the wind is that day...

Summary:
Transition zones work all season... But you have 14 different transition zones to start checking once season starts so you know whether to waste your time.
I hunted one holler on the side of a mountain 56 daylight hours this season starting in bow season. I can prolly count on one hand the number of deer I saw before 8:30 am or after 3pm...
Its just a little open holler where you can shoot about 100 yards, and there's laurel thickets 200 yards above and below, and small stands of white oaks 200 yards to the left and right.
Saw the same 8 four times starting in Sept before I got him killed in November. Each time he was on different trails, different elevations, and heading in different directions.
Finally got him down at 9:30 in the morning just cruising through the woods after thanksgiving.

Takes a lot of time and walking and wasted days hunting to figure some places out, but it can be fun and rewarding once you do.

Don't pigeonhole yourself into only hunting one little area unless you're confident that you've got it dialed in.
I've been hunting the mountain mentioned above since 2012 and it took me until this season to find the "best" spot......


I agreed regarding water. A lot of livestock will only drink 2 or 3 times a day. Not the occasional swig.

When you say transition zones, I assume you mean like a clear cut, or pines to hardwoods. I have plenty of CRP or native grasslands that butt up to hardwoods.
 

PewPewPew

Button Buck
PPP,

Where in WNC are you located? I had to actually stop putting corn out because the deer were eating me out of house and home. When the hardwoods on my place were covered with acorns of several types this past season they were still eating 100+ pounds of corn in a matter of a few days. Finally stopped putting it out when they got to where they were packing away 200+ pounds in 5 days in just two spots. As for patterning I have several cameras out and they are pretty predictable here in Ellenboro, NC. Unfortunately for me they heavily travel one section that I'm wanting to put a pasture up. I'm adjusting the size/shape of this pasture to try and avoid changing that travel route too much for now.

I'm in the Asheville area. I have no doubt that corn works. I'm too cheap and too stubborn to resort to that just yet. The majority of what I hunt is public.
 

appmtnhntr

Twelve Pointer
I agreed regarding water. A lot of livestock will only drink 2 or 3 times a day. Not the occasional swig.
When you say transition zones, I assume you mean like a clear cut, or pines to hardwoods. I have plenty of CRP or native grasslands that butt up to hardwoods.

No, more like the transition between areas where deer want to be. Travel corridors.
The holler where I was talking about in my earlier post doesn't have much feed in it, but it's happens to be an open holler that is surrounded by food and thick cover on all sides. They have to travel through it to get between food and bed.
Like I said, I've been hunting that mountain for 4 seasons and just figured out the best way to hunt it this past season...
 

PewPewPew

Button Buck
No, more like the transition between areas where deer want to be. Travel corridors.
The holler where I was talking about in my earlier post doesn't have much feed in it, but it's happens to be an open holler that is surrounded by food and thick cover on all sides. They have to travel through it to get between food and bed.
Like I said, I've been hunting that mountain for 4 seasons and just figured out the best way to hunt it this past season...

I'm putting a lot of thought into focusing on hunting draws this season. Most of the draws are not deep or wide enough to actually influence deer crossings. I do have a couple rocky and deep draws that cannot be crossed just anywhere. I don't this deer like to follow the length of draws. I think they cross them and move onto higher ground.
 

QBD2

Old Mossy Horns
My .02, I'd learn the lay of the land and not worry about it much until fall. They may stay in the same general areas, but patterns are constantly changing.

Find where they are eating the first acorns and go from there. Old sign might give you ideas, but fresh sign is king.
 
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