United Airlines

shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
I'm not one to support a ton of over the top lawsuits but if I was this guy I'd be getting paid. They say they have a right to kick someone off a flight if the flight is overbooked. This flight wasn't overbooked it was them trying to move their employees around. I think the guys gonna get paid and paid well. One of the security guys that removed him has already been put on paid leave for his part in it. To randomly select someone is horrible. What if it is was one half of a honeymooning couple or someone going to see a dying family member. Regardless of any lawsuits United looks pretty shady with this entire event.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/reduce-chances-getting-dragged-off-united-flight-152105288.html
 

witler

Eight Pointer
Airlines should take a look at over booking practice, they all have been doing it for years. I used to travel to NY on business and it was always a pain getting out of LaGuardia on Friday afternoons. Back then airlines would offer nice deals,cash, tickets.. if someone would give up their seat. It was so good that people who had no intention of flying would buy a cheap seat and give it up when the airline offered these deals. They were just playing the system.

This whole United situation could have been handled better and differently.
 

shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
I think the question is gonna come down to was it overbooked? Did those 4 United Airlines employees actually have tickets? If they didn't then bumping people for being overbooked was just an excuse and that's where the lawsuit is gonna come in.
 

Jlewis74

Old Mossy Horns
United is horrible and I will never fly them again unless its a last resort. I stick with SouthWest and Delta for the most part. Every United flight I have had to take they make you feel like they are doing you a favor by letting you fly rather than the other way around.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Dude wouldn't get anything if I were on the jury and able to prevent it. Bottom line if the police tell you to get off the plane then you get your arse off the plane. The airline doesn't have to take you anywhere according to their terms of service agreed to when the ticket was purchased.

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woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Dude wouldn't get anything if I were on the jury and able to prevent it. Bottom line if the police tell you to get off the plane then you get your arse off the plane. The airline doesn't have to take you anywhere according to their terms of service agreed to when the ticket was purchased.

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Yeap,,,,,,you can not like it but its part of the "pain" of flying
 

Jlewis74

Old Mossy Horns
Dude wouldn't get anything if I were on the jury and able to prevent it. Bottom line if the police tell you to get off the plane then you get your arse off the plane. The airline doesn't have to take you anywhere according to their terms of service agreed to when the ticket was purchased.

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The police should not be the enforcer of United being stupid. This guy had done nothing wrong, United had 4 employees show up who needed seats so they asked for four people to take a later flight for a voucher, no one accepted so they picked 4 at random who they made get off the plane so their employees could get a seat?? I am sorry that is not right, their employees should not take priority over a paying customer. Also if you notice the Police did not drag him off, I am not sure who that guy was but he was not a cop.
 

apexhunter

Ten Pointer
I agree with Tip...when you book a ticket you are obliged to their rules and instructions therein. Plus I heard this morning there are cell videos showing the guy being belligerent and disruptive before security became involved to create the scene everybody is looking at so the whole "overbooked" angle might be false. Regardless, when somebody with a badge tells you to move your action should be to move.
 

ellwoodjake

Twelve Pointer
The biggest boner United pulled was "boarding" an overbooked flight in the first place. Why the hell would you seat passengers and then have to remove some. Last time this happened to me, United realized there were too many people, when all the passengers had gotten their boarding passes and there were zero no-shows. The agent at the gate made me the offer of a $400 ticket voucher, taxi voucher, meal voucher, hotel voucher, and a free flight out the next day. When I mentioned I was flying with a co-worker, she said "Great, I need another volunteer too" We had a great meal, spent the evening getting hammered at the hotel bar, and later that year, me and the wife got to fly to my daughters house for FREE. Only downside was having to fly with a hangover.
 

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
If this wasn't videoed, it wouldn't even be a blip on the news. The bloody face is very nice for air play.

Overbooking is a huge problem (granted, the idea is to fly a fully seated flight, I understand that), and needs to be addressed.

But I'm not sure what everyone is clamoring about in this situation. Guy was asked to leave, guy refused. I've seen the same thing happen in Bars all over the place and no one flipped out about it.
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
How far away from a 'Police State' are we? Having 'rights' is an assumption.

Flying isn't a right. It's a privilege purchased from a company. Furthermore, it's a privilege that comes with a whole bunch of rules and restrictions that you agree to when you purchase the ticket.
 

shaggy

Old Mossy Horns
Flying isn't a right. It's a privilege purchased from a company. Furthermore, it's a privilege that comes with a whole bunch of rules and restrictions that you agree to when you purchase the ticket.

I think this is where the trouble comes in on this case. The rules apply to overbooking. I have not seen one article that says the employees were ticket holding passengers.

One of the men who took him off the plane has been put on paid leave while they investigate it. The CEO says the situation was handled poorly. There's dozens of lawyer waiting to get in on this case if the guy sues.
 

woodmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
One of the men who took him off the plane has been put on paid leave while they investigate it. The CEO says the situation was handled poorly.

Paid leave after an incident is not indicative of guilt,,,,,,and that CEO is worried about public perception


There's dozens of lawyer waiting to get in on this case if the guy sues.


Of course there are ,,we are a sue happy society with all the dang low rent lawyers looking to make there "millions" off of a law suit,,, especilly one that gets early negative publicity from sensationalist journalism
 
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QuietButDeadly

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Once upon a time, I spent a lot of time on airplanes. A lot of water has run under the bridge since then and I know some of the airline policies have changed sine I was a frequent flyer. I am not sure about the changes regarding how over booking is handled now versus then. That said, I have been on many overbooked flights and have never seen or heard tell of anyone being picked out and forced to give up a seat for any reason.

If you got to the gate on time and got your boarding pass, you were good to go. It was the folks who got there late that had a problem. They were at the mercy of another paying passenger who got there before them to accept whatever the airline offered to wait for a later flight. There was usually someone who would give up their seat for the vouchers offered. But I have seen cases where the number of seats overbooked was higher than those willing to take vouchers to defer. I have seen the announcement made to passengers already seated on the plane that they were looking for X number more folks to take later flights. If there was not enough volunteers, the late comers did not get a seat. Never have I seen a passenger already seated on a plane removed against his will due to overbooking or an airline employee needing a seat.

None of us were there to see or know exactly what happened in this particular situation but I will be very surprised to learn that the airline has the right to select volunteers at random and order them off the plane and then strong arm them to comply. Got to be more to the story but even if United was 100% in the right (which I doubt) they look bad and will loose business as a result.
 

ScottyB

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
The damage is done they will pay for what they did......people will remember that one
 

JONOV

Old Mossy Horns
The damage is done they will pay for what they did......people will remember that one

Nah..People will continue to fly the cheapest/most direct flight they can.

They really should have handled it differently by upping the bid. So they offered $400, that doesn't work offer $800, that doesn't work offer $1,200...If it cost them an extra few thousand bucks it would have been better than this debacle.

I understand the terms of the ticket, BUT, its one of those things, we aren't flying for funzies. Plenty of us have to be back at work, back at school, etc...and as such don't have many other options.
 
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downeastnc

Old Mossy Horns
The problem is United boarded this flight and it was not overbooked, they had a crew that was needed at the airport the flight was headed too and decided to bump 4 paying passengers from the flight after they had been checked in and allowed to take their seats on the plane. This is simply bad management period, then on top of that they tried to do it on the cheap, they could have offered more money and chose to stop at $800-1000, there is even a women that was on the flight that offered to get off for $1600 and was laughed at apparently.....airlines give this much and more all the time to compensate passengers for bumping them. The bottom line is this man bought a ticket sold by United thus agreeing to the contract doing so obligates him to, he showed up on time with the ticket and claimed his seat, United then allowed him to board the aircraft and get in his seat, he fulfilled the obligations he set when he arranged to buy the ticket, United then decided to remove him, frankly its crap.

The LEO involved also got a raw deal, this was a customer service issue, at no point was this man a threat to the safety of anyone on that aircraft, them having security get involved is going to be a huge mistake, I wonder how much info the LEO was given? In the end though its gonna cost United a lot more than the money they would have had to spend to buy out 4 seats on that plane, United tried to get it cheap and didn't, in fact this will cost them millions and honestly its no one fault but their own.
 
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TravisLH

Old Mossy Horns
Last time I flew the flight back from Memphis to RDU was over booked, and on top they had 12 employees that needed on since there were multiple flight cancellations due to weather. They asked for 12 volunteers and only got 3, no one with boarding passes were kicked the late passengers that arrived at boarding got bumped, but that is to be expected.


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Rescue44

Old Mossy Horns
Just in: WASHINGTON — The Pentagon announced Tuesday it had awarded a sole-source contract to United Airlines for work related to the forcible removal of President Bashar al-Assad from Syria.

The contract, worth $2.1 billion, tasks the airline company with locating Assad, grabbing him from his seat in the presidential palace, and “dragging him out of Damascus by his arms.” The contract also notes that Assad should be “asked several times, politely” to give up his seat of power, though if he refuses, United workers should bloody his nose up a bit... Lol
 

Weekender

Twelve Pointer
If this wasn't videoed, it wouldn't even be a blip on the news. The bloody face is very nice for air play.

Overbooking is a huge problem (granted, the idea is to fly a fully seated flight, I understand that), and needs to be addressed.

But I'm not sure what everyone is clamoring about in this situation. Guy was asked to leave, guy refused. I've seen the same thing happen in Bars all over the place and no one flipped out about it.

Thank you. Agreed 100%. And then the maniac somehow got back on the plane. Jibbering idiot. Mind you, the other three passengers accepted the voucher, etc. but this pig squealing snowflake...
 

Tipmoose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Just wait...It will be revealed that he is part of some "special needs" group. Most likely aspergers. Or maybe an immigrant who didn't understand English well. You can bet your bottom dollar he will be part of some protected group. No matter if he ever was before.
 

Homebrewale

Old Mossy Horns
This is a contractual situation. The terms and conditions that applied to the passenger and the ticket govern what United can do. I was right there with many of you that United could boot anyone off for any reason. That's not what is in the terms and conditions. Here's a link:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

Rule 5 gives the terms when United can cancel your reservation. Paragraph G of Rule 5 says flight may be overbooked and United's obligation to the passenger is under Rule 25.

Rule 25 is about the denying of a passenger boarding on an overbooked flight and what compensation and rights that person has. It does not discuss anything about passengers that have already boarded a flight.

Rule 21 provides the reasons why United can refuse to transport a passenger. None of the reasons under this rule say for overbooking. Also all the reasons are specific. United can't kick you off because you have blond hair.

Paragraph C of Rule 6 says No person will be entitled to transportation except upon presentation of a valid Ticket.

So in this case, the guy had presented a valid ticket and was already boarded. It seems from the terms and conditions that he was entitled transportation and all the overbooking policies govern overbooking before a passenger is boarded. Once on the plane, there were no rule violations that gave a reason for United to kick off the passenger.

That's fine if others disagree with me. I personally think contracts and terms and conditions mean something and businesses can't just violate that contract for any reason whatsoever. Why have a contractual agreement if they can?
 

Moose

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
This is a contractual situation. The terms and conditions that applied to the passenger and the ticket govern what United can do. I was right there with many of you that United could boot anyone off for any reason. That's not what is in the terms and conditions. Here's a link:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

Rule 5 gives the terms when United can cancel your reservation. Paragraph G of Rule 5 says flight may be overbooked and United's obligation to the passenger is under Rule 25.

Rule 25 is about the denying of a passenger boarding on an overbooked flight and what compensation and rights that person has. It does not discuss anything about passengers that have already boarded a flight.

Rule 21 provides the reasons why United can refuse to transport a passenger. None of the reasons under this rule say for overbooking. Also all the reasons are specific. United can't kick you off because you have blond hair.

Paragraph C of Rule 6 says No person will be entitled to transportation except upon presentation of a valid Ticket.

So in this case, the guy had presented a valid ticket and was already boarded. It seems from the terms and conditions that he was entitled transportation and all the overbooking policies govern overbooking before a passenger is boarded. Once on the plane, there were no rule violations that gave a reason for United to kick off the passenger.

That's fine if others disagree with me. I personally think contracts and terms and conditions mean something and businesses can't just violate that contract for any reason whatsoever. Why have a contractual agreement if they can?
There is the little problem that the dude had already left the plane and then rushed back on when the employees were going aboard. All parties did not handle this correctly. Not sure why this is even a major news story.
 

Jlewis74

Old Mossy Horns
I have yet to see any video of him acting bad before being carried off the flight. What Homebrewale said above is what gets me, I have never seen them come on and say we are over booked once the people are seated on the flight. I have seen then do this before boarding. If this had been me on my way home from CA on my last leg, you would have seen me in the video because I would have acted the same way, call me a snowflake all you want, its BS what they did to this guy 

It is amazing to me that some think the airline was in the right. (If video comes out showing him acting stupid before finding out he was going to have to get off the place I will change my tune)
 
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