The TSS Revolution

hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
well deserved recognition for a innovator and educator on better turkey loads. Hal has endured grief from skeptics yet stayed the course.and he was correct from the get go. TSS is a better tool for killing turkeys.

There are a ton of folks in this country who can thank him for making the sport better. Count me in that group.

Congratulation Hal.

Thanks Mike!
 

hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
I'm not sure I understand. Which should perform better in 12GA 3" #7 shot. Fed HW or Hevi-Shot?

Here's the way I look at it.

For turkey loads, you need two basic things - adequate pattern density, and adequate pellet penetration energy. The optimum load will have plenty of both, because if you have a lot of pellet penetration, but inadequate pattern density, you end up with an inconsistent load that has a high risk of crippling instead of immediately killing.

The most widely accepted minimum standards for adequate pattern density are 100 pellets in a 10" circle at whatever range you're shooting turkeys; and for pellet penetration energy, 1.25" penetration in ballistics gelatin. Whichever one of those standards peters out first, that's where your range limitation (for humane and ethical shooting) is.

Comparing Hevishot 7s with Federal Hwt 7s, you get this:

Hevishot 7s: 280 pellets per ounce, 1.25" penetration at 43.2 yds
Fed 7s: 220 pellets per ounce, 1.25" penetration at 76.1 yds

So, as long as you keep your shots within 43 yds with the Hevi 7s, and as long as you have 100 in a 10" circle at that range, they are a bonafide 43 yd shell.
With the Fed HWT 7s, you have way excess penetration energy - clear out to 76 yds, so your pattern density is the limitation you're up against. Most folks get about a 50 yd range of 100 in a 10" circle.

For most folks, you will end up being better off with the Fed HWT 7s, since most folks get more than 100 in a 10" at 40+ yds. But you have to pattern it to determine that for sure.

Compare that with TSS 9s:
357 pellets per ounce, 1.25" penetration at 71.5 yds

So, since you have so many more pellets, most people have a pattern with 9s that has over 100 in a 10" circle at 70 yds, so you end up with a bonafide 70 yd shell.
 

lasttombstone

Kinder, Gentler LTS
Hall...... as mentioned before, thanks for all your work in this area. Just for reference, would you post the information on the .410 TSS load. I limit my shots to 30 yards and have had no problem with a clean kill on any bird since I have switched to the .410 and don't intend to start pushing that range limit. It is just more fun for me to get the bird in close and make a clean kill without beating myself up.
 

Billy

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Here's the way I look at it.

For turkey loads, you need two basic things - adequate pattern density, and adequate pellet penetration energy. The optimum load will have plenty of both, because if you have a lot of pellet penetration, but inadequate pattern density, you end up with an inconsistent load that has a high risk of crippling instead of immediately killing.

The most widely accepted minimum standards for adequate pattern density are 100 pellets in a 10" circle at whatever range you're shooting turkeys; and for pellet penetration energy, 1.25" penetration in ballistics gelatin. Whichever one of those standards peters out first, that's where your range limitation (for humane and ethical shooting) is.

Comparing Hevishot 7s with Federal Hwt 7s, you get this:

Hevishot 7s: 280 pellets per ounce, 1.25" penetration at 43.2 yds
Fed 7s: 220 pellets per ounce, 1.25" penetration at 76.1 yds

So, as long as you keep your shots within 43 yds with the Hevi 7s, and as long as you have 100 in a 10" circle at that range, they are a bonafide 43 yd shell.
With the Fed HWT 7s, you have way excess penetration energy - clear out to 76 yds, so your pattern density is the limitation you're up against. Most folks get about a 50 yd range of 100 in a 10" circle.

For most folks, you will end up being better off with the Fed HWT 7s, since most folks get more than 100 in a 10" at 40+ yds. But you have to pattern it to determine that for sure.

Compare that with TSS 9s:
357 pellets per ounce, 1.25" penetration at 71.5 yds

So, since you have so many more pellets, most people have a pattern with 9s that has over 100 in a 10" circle at 70 yds, so you end up with a bonafide 70 yd shell.

That is VERY helpful. Thank you very much.
 

brownisdown

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
Hall...... as mentioned before, thanks for all your work in this area. Just for reference, would you post the information on the .410 TSS load. I limit my shots to 30 yards and have had no problem with a clean kill on any bird since I have switched to the .410 and don't intend to start pushing that range limit. It is just more fun for me to get the bird in close and make a clean kill without beating myself up.

Hal's recipe is for the 410 is a 13/16 OZ load going about 1070 fps. Loaded with TSS 9's that means the shell has 290 pellets in the load and has the same or very close to the same penetration yardarge Hal listed above (most TSS loads are going between 1050 -1125 fps I believe). Pattern density is the limit on the 410. Most guns can get to 40 yards reliably.
 

lasttombstone

Kinder, Gentler LTS
The best I have out of my Winchester 37 is 193 hits in a 10 inch circle at 30 yards. It's obvious it will go further out but I'm satisfied with that. No turkey is going to walk away from that unless I go blind before I pull the trigger.
 

hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
Hall...... as mentioned before, thanks for all your work in this area. Just for reference, would you post the information on the .410 TSS load. I limit my shots to 30 yards and have had no problem with a clean kill on any bird since I have switched to the .410 and don't intend to start pushing that range limit. It is just more fun for me to get the bird in close and make a clean kill without beating myself up.

Here's the .410 load numbers:

13/16 oz of 9s
290 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 67.5 yds

13/16 oz 9-1/2s
338 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 59.8 yds

13/16 oz 10s
406 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 51.5 yds

I shoot 9-1/2s for most of my turkeys (28 ga). This year was the first year I had guys shooting 10s with the .410, and based on the math and field reports, I believe that shot size will end up being the optimal size for that bore....
 

sky hawk

Old Mossy Horns
Contributor
Here's the .410 load numbers:

13/16 oz of 9s
290 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 67.5 yds

13/16 oz 9-1/2s
338 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 59.8 yds

13/16 oz 10s
406 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 51.5 yds

I shoot 9-1/2s for most of my turkeys (28 ga). This year was the first year I had guys shooting 10s with the .410, and based on the math and field reports, I believe that shot size will end up being the optimal size for that bore....

I need some of those. I've got a .410 that was handed down to my son from his uncle. It was given to his uncle by (my son's) late grandfather, who died 4 years ago now at age 59. The uncle killed his first deer and turkey with this gun, and I think my son may be ready to give it a shot for turkeys next year. But I think I would need TSS shells to make it happen. I would love to get some before next season. I'd like to try those 10's because you know a kid isn't gonna shoot past 40 yards in the woods anyways.
 
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hawglips

Old Mossy Horns
Check out this comparison, for perspective:

13/16 oz TSS 10s
406 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 51.5 yds

1-3/4 oz lead 6s
393 pellets, 1.25" penetration at 45.9 yds
 
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