"Red Wolf" restoration scandal

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Harpoon

Guest
I wonder how much the "blood test" costs (mentioned in highlighted paste above) to test each captured animal?

Also, if its a DNA based test, and they took the baseline sample from one of the originals, which if I recall correctly, may not have been pure of species, would that give a "false positive" result on some of the hybrids tested?

You might have more hybrids passing, and thrown back out, since the species is already mutt'ed up from what I read.

Just curious...
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
So, are there pictures which exist near wolf dens? Were cameras placed near den's on purpose? Were cameras placed away from dens on purpose?

Is the purpose of the camera's pics linked to capture the "wolves" in their "natural state"? or to capture "nature" in that given area, at that give time, in her "natural state"? Or to suggest nature stays proliferation even with the introduction of a new, non essential invasive species?

MR Sutherland. Do you mind please describing/explaining the purpose of the cameras you have provided links to?

Was The purpose of the camera's location what you expected/hope to capture? What results were you/they hoping/happy to see? Were "wolf dens" considered "off limits" for cameras? If so, why? If not, were any placed outside of "wolf" dens? If so, are those pictures available? If so, are they available without any deletions (ie; 001-1000 without interruptions)?

Are "wolf" dens so hard to find that friends of them can't find/photograph them? Or are they easy to find but friends of them don't want them photographed? Are they photographed or not?

With all due respect sir,
When dealing with Federal Fund$, shouldn't EVERY aspect be taken into consideration? Shouldn't all $ be treated as equal? Is Rhode Island Federal Tax $ less important or more important that NC Tax $

In all honesty, Brian, I don't think that 99% of the people that are arguing for/defending this animal have the knowledge of or ability to find a denning animal. It's extremely easy to read papers and publish articles and still have absolutely no knowledge as to how the animal acts, exists or lives in the wild. Some of us spend a lot of time on the ground and have a danged good idea of how to track and locate just about whatever animal it is that we set about to find. But that's because we are students of nature and our habitat in addition to the knowledge provided by research. Combine that, and you have an outdoor conservationist. Anything less is just academia at it's finest (or worst, your choice), recruiting $$ by creating dramatic heartstring pulls on an unsuspecting general public. I've got my eyes on a couple of den sites already. I'll try to get and publish pics before I eliminate them.
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor

I asked for this to be reposted for those of you questioning the "genetics" of this animal. Please take note that these animals were selected by phenotype, not genotype. That's understandable due to the timing and minimal use of genetic studies available at the time. What's not understandable is that now there is quantitative DNA research available, why is this animal still being challenged as a separate species (declared extinct in the wild) vs the hybrid that it is?
 

Buxndiverdux

Old Mossy Horns
Does anyone have quick access to the USFW document that talks about selecting captive animals with red wolf traits to use for restocking?
 

Mike Noles aka conman

Administrator
Staff member
Contributor
Which document are you looking for? The 60s/70s version or the 2010/11 versions? Jett or BR549 can probably get you whichever you choose.
 
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BR549

Twelve Pointer
Does anyone have quick access to the USFW document that talks about selecting captive animals with red wolf traits to use for restocking?



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2boyz

Twelve Pointer
Contributor
evolution as opposed to reality: "wolf man" dreams of lifting his hind leg....while squatting
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
The RW Field Team and the USFWS Captive Breeding Program / Point Defiance Zoo have killed just over 1000 canids since the early 70's. This all in a quest to invest the perfect red wolf.
 

BR549

Twelve Pointer
this is the most current stud book published that i could find
https://www.fws.gov/redwolf/Reviewd...J6aaZv4BG-z4ykIEg&sig2=1NZoS77gpWx1i8bjdYq9AQ

Try this link before they take it down. Interesting with all the millions the PDZ has fleeced off taxpayers they do not have the studbook current and its 3 yrs old. I guess even the PDZ has given up on the red wolf.

https://www.fws.gov/redwolf/Reviewdocuments/RedWolf_Studbook2013.pdf

Once you get into it, pay close attention around May 1977 and the number of new born nursing pups they euthanized... Some just days old...





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Jett

Ten Pointer
Red Wolf Alert

Fellow Landowners and Sportsmen of NC,

USFWS is hosting two public hearings regarding proposed new rules for their failed Red Wolf Program:

6:30 p.m. Tuesday, June 6th at Mattamuskeet High School; 20392 US-264, Swan Quarter, NC 27885. The meeting will be held in the cafeteria.


6:30 p.m. Thursday, June 8th at Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge; 100 Conservation Way, Manteo, NC 27954. The meeting will be held in the auditorium.


You were all very instrumental in helping to expose this unlawful tax payer scandal and bastardization of the ESA. I know most of you are tired of all the various public hearings about this hybrid coyote, but I need your help one more time to protect our private property rights and NC's wildlife from a rogue and arrogant Federal agency. Please try to attend and let USFWS hear your voices loud and clear. I assure you the so called "Non Profit Conservation Groups" making a living off of this fake wolf, will bus in nonresidents to tell USFWS what the local citizens need and should want.

USFWS is considering several options. Their preferred option are Rules to allow the program to continue on Federal lands in Dare County only. These Rules of course are the exact same Rules that USFWS promised to abide by in 1986, while they proceeded to illegally release their human engineered hybrid coyotes on private land and then refused to remove them as dictated by their very own rules. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice... well it isn't going to happen this time.

The exact same conditions that led USFWS to terminate the Red Wolf Program in the Great Smokey National Park in 1998 exist now and have existed for 30 years in eastern NC. See link below for more information. From a biological standpoint, the Eastern NC program has failed miserably with less breeding pairs now than what the program started with over 30 years ago. Just as important, with countless unlawful violations of Federal Rules by USFWS personnel, private landowner trust and support for USFWS is at a level far below zero. The only viable option at this point is to terminate the Red Wolf Program in eastern NC as was done in the Great Smokey Mountain National Park.

I thank you for your help.

Jett Ferebee
(252) 714-2774

Here are some helpful links:

- Current Public Notice:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...sential-experimental-population-of-red-wolves

- 1998 Federal Register Notice of Termination of Red Wolf Reintroduction in the Great Smokey Mountains:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...project-in-the-great-smoky-mountains-national

- All the data and facts anyone needs:

http://forum.citizensscience.org/index.php/topic,443.0.html

https://nchuntandfish.com/forums/showthread.php?95624-quot-Red-Wolf-quot-restoration-scandal

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/7/e1501714.full


"The team concludes that neither the red nor the eastern wolf is a species. Instead, they suggest that both are hybrid populations that arose after Europeans arrived in North America"
 

ellwoodjake

Twelve Pointer
Wish I could be there jett, I'm sure you and br549 will ask plenty of tough questions. Make sure you document their answers and find out how we can be sure they'll follow their own rules and guildlines , THIS TIME
 

NCST8GUY

Frozen H20 Guy
Red Wolf Alert

Fellow Landowners and Sportsmen of NC,

USFWS is hosting two public hearings regarding proposed new rules for their failed Red Wolf Program:

6:30 p.m. Tuesday, June 6th at Mattamuskeet High School; 20392 US-264, Swan Quarter, NC 27885. The meeting will be held in the cafeteria.


6:30 p.m. Thursday, June 8th at Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge; 100 Conservation Way, Manteo, NC 27954. The meeting will be held in the auditorium.


You were all very instrumental in helping to expose this unlawful tax payer scandal and bastardization of the ESA. I know most of you are tired of all the various public hearings about this hybrid coyote, but I need your help one more time to protect our private property rights and NC's wildlife from a rogue and arrogant Federal agency. Please try to attend and let USFWS hear your voices loud and clear. I assure you the so called "Non Profit Conservation Groups" making a living off of this fake wolf, will bus in nonresidents to tell USFWS what the local citizens need and should want.

USFWS is considering several options. Their preferred option are Rules to allow the program to continue on Federal lands in Dare County only. These Rules of course are the exact same Rules that USFWS promised to abide by in 1986, while they proceeded to illegally release their human engineered hybrid coyotes on private land and then refused to remove them as dictated by their very own rules. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice... well it isn't going to happen this time.

The exact same conditions that led USFWS to terminate the Red Wolf Program in the Great Smokey National Park in 1998 exist now and have existed for 30 years in eastern NC. See link below for more information. From a biological standpoint, the Eastern NC program has failed miserably with less breeding pairs now than what the program started with over 30 years ago. Just as important, with countless unlawful violations of Federal Rules by USFWS personnel, private landowner trust and support for USFWS is at a level far below zero. The only viable option at this point is to terminate the Red Wolf Program in eastern NC as was done in the Great Smokey Mountain National Park.

I thank you for your help.

Jett Ferebee
(252) 714-2774

Here are some helpful links:

- Current Public Notice:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...sential-experimental-population-of-red-wolves

- 1998 Federal Register Notice of Termination of Red Wolf Reintroduction in the Great Smokey Mountains:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...project-in-the-great-smoky-mountains-national

- All the data and facts anyone needs:

http://forum.citizensscience.org/index.php/topic,443.0.html

https://nchuntandfish.com/forums/showthread.php?95624-quot-Red-Wolf-quot-restoration-scandal

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/7/e1501714.full


"The team concludes that neither the red nor the eastern wolf is a species. Instead, they suggest that both are hybrid populations that arose after Europeans arrived in North America"

So this meeting will fall on different ears the the previous ones in the past I attended in Raleigh? (NCWRC or USFWS)?

The red wolf folks were supporters had folks from the mtns at that one (a place the wolves have NO CHANCE or reaching unless we stop hunting altogether).

If thats the case, I'd imagine the RW folks will have a large crowd for these public meetings. I hope they are DWARFED.

Does a public expression (email, voicemail etc) option not exist? Must it be in person? ( I can not attend, hard to say if that helps or hurts our cause).
 
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Jett

Ten Pointer
So this meeting will fall on different ears the the previous ones in the past I attended in Raleigh? (NCWRC or USFWS)?

The red wolf folks were supporters had folks from the mtns at that one (a place the wolves have NO CHANCE or reaching unless we stop hunting altogether).

If thats the case, I'd imagine the RW folks will have a large crowd for these public meetings. I hope they are DWARFED.

Does a public expression (email, voicemail etc) option not exist? Must it be in person? ( I can not attend, hard to say if that helps or hurts our cause).

Please attend if possible but if not, at least send in written comments. They need to make a recommendation and state why. To just say you are for or against the program does nothing.

Since I do not trust USFWS to accurately reflect my verbal comments, I actually believe well document written comments will be more valuable. PLEASE ALL OF YOU AT LEAST SEND IN WRITTEN COMMENTS:

Comment submission: You may submit written comments by one of the following methods:

(1) Electronically: Go to the Federal eRulemaking Portal: http://www.regulations.gov. Search for FWS-R4-ES-2017-0006, which is the docket number for this action. You may submit a comment by clicking on “Comment Now!”

(2) By hard copy: Submit by U.S. mail or hand-delivery to: Public Comments Processing, Attn: FWS-R4-ES-2017-0006; Division of Policy, Performance, and Management Programs; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Headquarters, MS: BPHC, 5275 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22041-3803.
 
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odie408

Ten Pointer
Sorry, if I talked anyone into driving very far to come to this meeting. I would hate it had you driving from some Durham. I didn't hear much I didn't hear thirty years ago. They are going to make new rules that the wolf pimps won't let them follow.
 
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